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COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
Hello all, newbie here. Been reading your boards and gathering a lot of good info- thank you.
I'm in my mid-50s. I have a unique case that I've been playing whack-a-mole medicine with for ~ 10 years; so bear with me and provide help if you can...
I had trouble sleeping up until 2019, then the insomnia went into overdrive. I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. I was put on anti-depressants, Ambien, etc. I was put on a cpap for OSA. Combining all that is rough.
2020- I had the prostate removed, and for those that know the side effects are incontinence, stress insomnia, impotence, and pissing yourself-- none are any fun.
2021- I had a hip replaced while I was recovering from the pros surgery. I was switched to Lunesta, and spent a lot of time on the couch trying to sleep, heal, and recover. The couch was more comfortable so I wouldn't roll over on my hip (unlike the the bed). I was switched to an ASV for my CSA. So again, try getting used to an air compressor blasting your face while not moving from surgery and not sleeping.
2022- The Lunesta is ineffective. It works 2-3 hrs, but the hangover is pretty bad. I was put on an oxygen concentrator with the ASV. To date, I have never felt good from the cpap, ASV, nor the ASV + O2. I am using the ASV + O2 for > 6-7 hrs/nt; so my sleep dr says I should be good and sleeping well- nope, nada, zilch.
My bp is consistently ~135/90 ish, and heart rate > 80 bpm. My motor is on high idle and I'm running rich- someday it will blow up.
My recent labs showed my HCT has climbed to 58, which means I've developed polycythemia. IOW, my blood is oxygen starved and too thick, like honey. I've started donating blood monthly to bring my HCT down.
I did an unofficial test where I checked my SpO2 level before/after wearing the ASV + O2: before ~90%; after 90-92%. I wore the mask for ~10 min while I checked my oximeter. If on O2, I should have been > 96% SpO2...
I've seen my primary dr, cardiology, endocrinology, pulmonology, and a sleep dr. Nobody has answers as to why 1) my O2 is so low, 2) which bad body part is guilty and 3) how to effectively treat it. I'm still in the "let's run another test" protocol.
I cannot sleep naturally at all- not even a Sat afternoon nap. I'm addicted to the Lunesta, which only works for 2-3 hrs. I need to get off this sh*t.
I'm in a vicious circle where all these culprits are feeding each other. I have to break the chain and eliminate some variables.
I'm on a waiting list to see a new sleep dr who specializes in CBTI. I understand the methods and goals, but my concern is that I shouldn't start it until I get my O2, bp, and heart rate under control. My AHIs are < 5, so my current sleep dr doesn't give a sh*t. An OSCAR print really won't help me right now.
My life has been hell, and I've asked my wife several times to take me in the yard and put me down, but she refuses until our will is updated... Ok, I'm done bitching.
So what would you do? Go cold turkey from the Lunesta and start the CBTI, or wait until some physiological issues are handled?
10-09-2022, 10:29 AM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2022, 10:34 AM by Motorheadrulz.)
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
I've kind of started the CBTI. I'm going cold turkey to get off the Lunesta. I have a referral to a new sleep clinic and coach; I'm waiting on the appt.
This is a bear! I've been dozing on the couch at night and am getting ~3 hr (1200- 0300 ish) of something you call "sleep". So i'm not using the ASV + O2 pump.
Just for grins, I've attached an OSCAR history print. Keep in mind the numbers may look great, but the reality is this is on sleep meds, full compliance, and I feel horrible. The med hangovers are pretty rough...
So anyway... any productive comments on the report?
TIA, MHR
Details: Resmed Aircurve 10 ASV + Airtouch F20 mask; I have a full beard, so the leaks are understood.
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
I agree; cold turkey is not the way to go. I'm amazed your doctors have had you use Lunestra for so long. Please discuss how to taper off it with your primary care physician.
You can get a recording oximeter that can feed its data into Oscar, which might allow you to see a little better what's going on. On the Oscar welcome page, click on Oximetry Wizard for more information.
Someone trained in CBTi should be able to talk with you about how to use this therapy in light of your complex medical problems. When you say you've sort of started it, are you doing it on your own? I'd advise against that.
You need to be using your ASV and O2 concentrator! If that means sleeping in your bed again, then do that. Really.
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
You need the ASV +O2. Find a way to use it every time you sleep.
Work with a doc to taper off the Lunesta. Sedation is not the same as sleep and it isn't doing you any favors.
The cardiologists should be working on that elevated BP and heart rate. If they aren't, find a new one.
Are you on a blood thinner? You likely should be. Talk to the docs.
Hematology might need to get on board to address that HCT if cardiology and pulmonary aren't paying attention although it could be explained by your heart and lung issues.
CBT-I is very helpful. It should be started as you're also working on the medical concerns.
Doctors really suck sometimes. Keep advocating for yourself and if one won't listen keep searching out new ones until you find docs that will listen.
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
I had a sleep dr tell me last month to start CBTI (but he doesn't offer that service) and get off the Lunesta. His exact words were "... just use the app to track your progress" and "nobody ever died from insomnia". Yeah... no sh*t Sherlock; that's why I'm waiting for a new sleep dr who is trained in COSA, CBTI and to hold me accountable for logging while making adjustments.
<are you doing it on your own?> Yes, but gradually. I've only spent 2 nights on the couch this week without meds.
From the research I found on CBTI, it basically makes you stay awake until your brain cries "Uncle!" and resets your thinking and disassociation with the bed and sleep. Eventually, your brain activates your sleep mode, you establish a pattern, then you adjust from there. It could take weeks and months.
Oximeter? I have a finger oximeter but not a wearable. I had a Fitbit, but every time I checked my data it said "Why aren't you dead yet?" But seriously, I'm looking into the Oura ring for a longer lasting solution. I've had 3 overnight oximetry studies, and the data looks good- but I still feel like sh*t. Hence the pulmonary consult...
I will be using the ASV + O2 starting tonite- sleep or no sleep. I heard one researching call it the yo-yo effect.
I'll post another OSCAR print asap for a night without meds as a comparison.
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
I'd recommend getting an Oscar-compatible oximeter so you can match the O2 data with the respiration data. Here are the listed oximeters:
OSCAR is currently compatible with Contec CMS50D+, CMS50E, CMS50F and CMS50I serial oximeters.
(Note: Direct importing from bluetooth models is probably not possible yet)
You may wish to note, other companies, such as Pulox, simply rebadge Contec CMS50's under new names, such as the Pulox PO-200, PO-300, PO-400. These should also work.
It also can read from ChoiceMMed MD300W1 oximeter .dat files.
I'm not sure whether you're doing CBTi on your own or Lunestra tapering. I think it'd be smart to do both with professional help, though your sleep doctor sounds like such a jerk that I wouldn't recommend turning to him!
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
Motorhead, it would really help to see a daily details chart for your therapy rather than the statistical summary. You seem to be uncomfortable with the ASV, so let's start there and get the settings right. On top of everything else, are you by any chance on Testosterone?
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
Sleeprider- I'm ok with the ASV and have been using it for over a year.
The following are per drs orders:
- Yes, I've been on testosterone replacement for years. I just switched to a topical cream instead of the injections to better regulate the dosage and shedding.
- Stopped taking thyroid meds
- Getting routine lab work
- I'm on blood pressure meds and am keeping a daily diary
- No on blood thinners
- Donating blood dropped my HCT down to 50. I have a hemo appt later this month to set up monthly donations- if you are on testo, you can donate every 2 months without a dr order at a blood bank
- I got a new PCM who is taking charge of all this shat
Attached is my data from 10/7 while on sleep meds. I'll post a without meds asap.
As I said above, the drs are only concerned with compliance and low AHIs. Nobody is looking at the whole person and how to fix it- I prefer to find the hemorrhage, cauterize it, and stop applying band aids.
10-17-2022, 11:47 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2022, 11:47 PM by Motorheadrulz.)
RE: COSA, hypoxemia, AFIB, high BP, polycythemia, and CBTI?
Attached is my data from 10/14 (without meds). The data looks good, and only 1 event.
I looked at my data from the past week and the results are similar. Although, there were a few nights where I was only in bed for 2-3 hrs; so not much data.
IOW- the ASV is working.
I have an Oura ring on order, and will track my SpO2 manually. According to the wiki page, the Oura is not currently compatible with OSCAR.
I've been doing the CBTI stuff, and the sleep restriction has been tough. I'm still only getting 2-3 hrs sleep per night, but I don't have the pill hangover.
According to several of your replies, there is a balance on an ASV of pressure vs. flow, and would like to focus on optimizing the ASV + O2. Unless you good folks have any comments, I don't see where I need to change anything.