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RE: Prep for overflow and pre-triaged aged kept home
Nice job, 2SleepBetta!
Just so folks know we are currently in the process of setting up a new COVID-19 Forum comprised of a small working group of senior Apnea Board members to take the best ideas from this thread and other places and (hopefully in cooperation with some medical professionals) prepare some general guidelines for people who have no choice but to self-treat at a time when hospitals and clinics become overwhelmed.
The forum will be viewable by all registered Apnea Board members, but only the senior working group will be able to post in this new forum. The working group will initially be comprised of Apnea Board staff members, our Advisory Members and members of the AST group (OSCAR development team). Qualified individuals, such as verified health care professionals and others may be added to this group as we proceed.
It is our desire to develop a set of practical protocols for people to provide an austere method for self-treatment at home using CPAP, Bilevel, ASV and related machines in the event that standard hospital care becomes unavailable.
When the forum is ready to go, we will make a public announcement here in the Main Forum and in this thread.
For those not in the working group, please continue to post your ideas here in this thread, as many folks from the working group keep up with what's posted here. In this way, you can help them progress towards the final goal, and your ideas and suggestions may be integrated into the protocols.
Several members have requested to have a more organized place to present the best ideas from this thread to our members, since this thread has gotten huge and understandably difficult to read through. The new forum is designed to create a more focused consensus opinion for using these machines and other related equipment, supplies and techniques to fight COVID-19 as best we can, in a home setting.
When the new forum is launched, to view it, you must be signed into your Apnea Board forum account. If you don't yet have a forum account, you can sign up for one free-of-charge, here:
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
Fantastic! This will be a much needed resource. Some questions to answer will be:
1. Sensible settings for traditional CPAP.
2. Ditto for BiPap/VPap. Big issue for both being to avoid the temptation to put everything up to max settings - which might be wrong.
3. Are you able to provide 1 and 2 generally - or do you need to have specific manufacturer machines highlighted?
4. Do you use a humidifier or not, if you have one?
5. Do you use supplemental oxygen - if you have access - and how best to do so if you do.
6. What sort of masks to use?
7. Do you use 24/7 or less than that if you are COVID-19 positive and struggling. Role of SpO2 devices.
8. How to best maintain a COVID cpap therapy room in a house - temperature - humidity - windows - and protect others in the house.
etc etc
9. When to call emergency.....need a decision tree here.....
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-04-2020, 02:52 AM)electron99 Wrote:
Fantastic! This will be a much needed resource. Some questions to answer will be:
1. Sensible settings for traditional CPAP.
2. Ditto for BiPap/VPap. Big issue for both being to avoid the temptation to put everything up to max settings - which might be wrong.
3. Are you able to provide 1 and 2 generally - or do you need to have specific manufacturer machines highlighted?
4. Do you use a humidifier or not, if you have one?
5. Do you use supplemental oxygen - if you have access - and how best to do so if you do.
6. What sort of masks to use?
7. Do you use 24/7 or less than that if you are COVID-19 positive and struggling. Role of SpO2 devices.
8. How to best maintain a COVID cpap therapy room in a house - temperature - humidity - windows - and protect others in the house.
etc etc
9. When to call emergency.....need a decision tree here.....
Sorry if I've duplicated stuff.
I would add: complementary therapies and measures that can be used as alternatives when you can't access primary suggestions.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
Machine: BiPAP ST Mask Type: Other Mask Make & Model: Haven't chosen yet Humidifier: REMstar Heated Humidifier CPAP Pressure: Will use as ventilator CPAP Software: Not using software
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-03-2020, 10:50 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 10:22 PM)Dougo Wrote: I just had an idea for an alternative to clapping to help break up mucous in the lungs, mentioned in post 448. Use a random orbital buffer. I got one as a heavy duty back massager. It's great. It'll vibrate the hell out of that mucous. They're cheap too, like $35. Might have to search for something like orbital waxer/polisher.
... you've had good success while using it as a back massager?
Yes. It's stronger than those so called "back massagers."
(04-03-2020, 11:01 PM)srlevine1 Wrote: You do realize that you can induce a major (i.e. deadly) heart attack if someone actually did this? Life is a tradeoff and power tools are usually on the other side of the equation.
Yes, I would not advise it for someone who has a pacemaker. I was a little skeptical using it at first too. My barber had one he used on my neck. I got one, used it on my leg first to test. When you run it just in the air, it seems too powerful a tool to use, but when you put it on your back, it seems just right, not so wimpy, but strong enough to really feel good.
04-04-2020, 06:47 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2020, 06:52 AM by srlevine1.)
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-04-2020, 05:33 AM)Dougo Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 10:50 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 10:22 PM)Dougo Wrote: I just had an idea for an alternative to clapping to help break up mucous in the lungs, mentioned in post 448. Use a random orbital buffer. I got one as a heavy duty back massager. It's great. It'll vibrate the hell out of that mucous. They're cheap too, like $35. Might have to search for something like orbital waxer/polisher.
... you've had good success while using it as a back massager?
Yes. It's stronger than those so called "back massagers."
(04-03-2020, 11:01 PM)srlevine1 Wrote: You do realize that you can induce a major (i.e. deadly) heart attack if someone actually did this? Life is a tradeoff and power tools are usually on the other side of the equation.
Yes, I would not advise it for someone who has a pacemaker. I was a little skeptical using it at first too. My barber had one he used on my neck. I got one, used it on my leg first to test. When you run it just in the air, it seems too powerful a tool to use, but when you put it on your back, it seems just right, not so wimpy, but strong enough to really feel good.
Not just a pacemaker. It might be strong enough to create or break loose a blood clot that could result in a stroke or heart attack. It would probably depend on the location being massaged. BTW as for a pacemaker or defibrillator any close motor or magnetic field might be dangerous. They also warn about radio frequency sources.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
Machine: BiPAP ST Mask Type: Other Mask Make & Model: Haven't chosen yet Humidifier: REMstar Heated Humidifier CPAP Pressure: Will use as ventilator CPAP Software: Not using software
04-04-2020, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2020, 07:56 AM by Dougo.
Edit Reason: add info
)
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
If you have a condition where you're at risk of a blood clot dislodging, yes, don't try it. These car buffers are routinely used by athletes, massage therapists, and yes, physicians. Google "car buffer for massage." BTW, the buffer does not rotate while on a surface with a little pressure applied, it just oscillates in a small area.
Machine: BiPAP ST Mask Type: Other Mask Make & Model: Haven't chosen yet Humidifier: REMstar Heated Humidifier CPAP Pressure: Will use as ventilator CPAP Software: Not using software
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
2SleeppBetta had some great information about making a tent to protect from contamination (post 490, page 49). One could make or buy something like an oxygen tent and adapt it. I have bunk bed which would be ideal to use.
Moderator note: The Northwell Health initiative is to use a "BiPAP" machine for invasive ventilation. This requires the patient to be intubated. This is NOT a DIY solution.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-02-c...evice.html :
Among these patients, use of a noninvasive ventilator device, such as bilevel positive airway pressure, compared to no device was significantly associated with lower mortality: 29.2% versus 22.3%. The use of a noninvasive ventilator device also led to fewer emergency department visits and hospitalizations, and lower rates of intubation if patients were admitted to the hospital.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-05-a...xygen.html
Sixty-four patients completed the 12-month study, with 28 receiving home oxygen alone and 36 receiving home oxygen plus home NIV. The median time to readmission or death was 4.3 months in the home oxygen plus home NIV group vs 1.4 months in the home oxygen alone group. The 12-month risk of readmission or death was 63 percent in the home oxygen plus home NIV group vs 80 percent in the home oxygen alone group. At 12 months, 16 patients had died in the home oxygen plus home NIV group vs 19 in the home oxygen alone group.
Moderator note: The studies referred to above relate to COPD, not COVID. Two separate issues entirely.
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-02-2020, 05:39 PM)Johnboy Wrote: More on the home made mask solution ie using some type of filter to allow us to effectively use a CPAP mask. I have attached a link that tested lots of different materials. As usual nothing ever simple. The most effective for filtering are also the hardest to breathe through. Surgical masks are best but of course we want to leave them for the health professionals.
This was really eye opening and people need to understand that there are materials out there that can be used effectively. Even using a cloth mask and adding more material helps quite a bit.
This and eye protection are essential to not getting the virus.
As with others, I think it would be great to have some protocol for setting a CPAP/APAP/Bilevel.
Whatever is put together needs to also have guidance for a caregiver should do, dress, etc. I don’t think anyone will just be tucked away in a room without someone else providing water, nourishment, and meds.
