CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia

[Maggie]

Multiple thumbs up, SuperSleeper, on your reply to Rvosatka.  Let's hope that's the last we hear from him.  Can't be used in hospitals?  Oh, really?  Can't eat while using CPAP?  What utter rubbish!   Please keep up the pressure on behalf of all who might be misled - especially now when scams against the unwary looking for info. on the virus, are being dreamed up by the criminally minded. Some of us are definitely in favour of a bit of tough talking when it's needed . . .

I am a healthcare professional.  This is not medical advice.  This is opinion.

Likewise, take my statements for what they are:  a personal opinion, not medical advice.  

Sorry for the interjection here, but I do have to remind our members that we have people at times who fake a persona for their own purposes.

Back to our conversation....

[PoolQ]

CPAP in hospitals WITH contagious patients! They of course can be used in hospitals and are all the time. That's not the problem and it's not really the CPAP machine either- it's the mask that vents from the mask directly in the room. This contaminates the room, they say for the next 4 hours.

For all the MacGyver's and 3D printing experts, make a mask or adapt an existing full face mask that still has all the small holes to control pressure but has a tube attached to the other side (room side) so all of the exhale can be sent to a filter box. All the ventilators (that I know of) have this exhale hose instead of just venting into the open room.

From what I have read in other places, a CPAP better yet a BiPAP can be used with COVID-19 to splint open the alveolus (air sacks) in the lungs. Pretty sure I remember that you would want higher inhale pressure and an exhale pressure closer to the inhale pressure so that the lungs do not collapse on exhale. Constant pressure works fine also, but takes more work by the patient.

Good luck out there.

[Maggie]

Multiple thumbs up, SuperSleeper, on your reply to Rvosatka.  Let's hope that's the last we hear from him.  Can't be used in hospitals?  Oh, really?  Can't eat while using CPAP?  What utter rubbish!   Please keep up the pressure on behalf of all who might be misled - especially now when scams against the unwary looking for info. on the virus, are being dreamed up by the criminally minded. Some of us are definitely in favour of a bit of tough talking when it's needed . . .

I am a healthcare professional.  This is not medical advice.  This is opinion.

Likewise, take my statements for what they are:  a personal opinion, not medical advice.  

Sorry for the interjection here, but I do have to remind our members that we have people at times who fake a persona for their own purposes.

Back to our conversation....

Interesting to note that Rvosatka has been a member for years but this was the first time he had anything to say.  It might be a good idea for everyone to cheek the left side-bar for previous involvement when 'professionals' post, to see if they have been active and useful members before or whether their membership has been based on a potential for opportunism.
I'm stuck indoors for the duration (family insistence/age) and am catching up with this thread as the most useful thing I can do at the moment.  One of my family works for a small local business that is already designated 'essential' and is now switching production over to re-usable face shields.  
But, as you say - back to the conversation.

[SarcasticDave94]

Good point on checking a user's post counts Maggie. Best wishes you ride out the storm with the rest of AB in relative sanity.

[garfam]

In Germany someones found:

So genannte CPAP-Geräte gibt es laut Wissenschaftsministerium in rund zwei Millionen deutschen Haushalten und auch in Kliniken, vor allem zur Behandlung von Schlafapnoe. Nach einer Idee des Schlafmedizinischen Zentrums in Marburg hat das "Breathing Project" es mit Bauteilen für rund 50 Euro für eine künstliche Beatmung in der Klinik erweitert. Jetzt werden Produktionsstätten gesucht, eine Eisengießerei in Stadtallendorf (Marburg-Biedenkopf) habe "mit einer ersten Kleinserie“ begonnen. "Das Gerät kann nahezu vollständig in großer Stückzahl mit einem 3D-Drucker hergestellt werden", schreibt Physiker Koch auf der Projekt-Homepage

Translation:

According to the Ministry of Science, there are so-called CPAP devices in around two million German households and also in clinics, especially for the treatment of sleep apnea. According to an idea of ​​the sleep medicine center in Marburg, the "Breathing Project" expanded it with components for around 50 euros for artificial ventilation in the clinic. Production facilities are now being sought, and an iron foundry in Stadtallendorf (Marburg-Biedenkopf) "has started with a first small series." The device can be manufactured almost entirely in large numbers using a 3D printer, "writes physicist Koch on the project website

Hope it is what you are looking for.

greetings
garfam

[Stom]

What do ventilators do with the exhaled air, in order to avoid aerosol contaminating the room? 
I use HEPA room filters. They should help I would imagine. But, would it be sufficient?

One of the issues for CPAP masks is you have to maintain the "intentional leak rate" of the CO2 washout vent. Putting a filter on the vent will reduce the leak rate and increase CO2. Adding a reversed funnel to a bigger filter to create less air resistance will create a larger dead space, also reducing CO2 washout. So I'm not sure what the answer is for CPAP or if knowing how the two "limb" (in and out hoses) ventilators filtration system can help us since they use unvented masks and don't do CO2 washout the way CPAP masks all do.

[arhdc]

Translation of garfams post:

According to the Ministry of Science, there are so-called CPAP devices in around two million German households and also in clinics, especially for the treatment of sleep apnea. According to an idea of the sleep medicine center in Marburg, the "Breathing Project" expanded it with components for around 50 euros for artificial ventilation in the clinic. Production facilities are now being sought, and an iron foundry in Stadtallendorf (Marburg-Biedenkopf) "has started with a first small series." The device can be manufactured almost entirely in large numbers using a 3D printer, "writes physicist Koch on the project website

[dan451]

A home-made air sterilization unit might look like a water-pipe.  The exhalation air would bubble into a liquid bath before it is released into the atmosphere. The liquid bath might be a bleach solution ((even an acid bath??))  (suggestions should come from virus control medical experts). 

Another problem, the input  air that the patient is given should also be free of the virus, this seems like  a bigger challenge within a hospital crowded with corvid-19 patients. The inhalation air might be sterilized with filters and a SAFE non toxic sterilization unit, maybe with ultraviolet light.

No idea if it is myth or proven - but I hear that covid-19 virus is rapidly killed when it comes in contact with a copper surface.

 If so, it wouldn't be hard to make a pair of canisters packed with copper mesh or similar [copper scouring pads] with both the intake air and exhaled air passing through their own canisters.
If U.V. light is effective at killing the virus as well, it wouldn't be that hard to include this into both sides of the system too.
The beauty of this is that everything is "off the shelf" at your hardware store and supermarket.

The information I saw (I don't remember where now) gave estimates for the virus half life on several surfaces. It was: 
Copper < Steel < Plastic

However, it was still over an hour on copper, so I don't think this particular approach will work. 

Best,
Dan

[dan451]

What is the possibility of using the SoClean equipment with its cleaning abilities to destroys 99.9% of PAP germs, bacteria, and other pathogens?

"Ozone Concentration:

10 ppm @ 5 min when measured 1 cm from the ozone generator output tubing interface on the SoClean device, assuming the starting ozone concentration is < 0.3 ppm prior to turning the SoClean device on."
from the SoClean Manual

Start by removing the Removable Hose Slot Plug, which allows you to set up the SoClean device on either the right or left side of your CPAP machine. Place a new flexible tubing in the Removable Hose Slot Plug. And then the other end of the new flexible tubing to the facial mask being used?

Attached is a rough drawing.


Question is, how long a period of time can a person breathe in the

---

Left off final question;
How long can a person breathe in the air mixture from the SoClean machine?

I have SoClean machine, which I love. However, this is not a good idea. You don't want to be breathing the ozone, which is certainly harmful to your health. The ozone generator only runs for a few minutes (8 min default, IIRC), and the rest of the cleaning cycle is to allow the ozone produced to revert to harmless oxygen.

Dan

[dbainbr]

I'm thinking of exhausting through one of those funnel-shaped in-line filters.  Then you could clean that with a So-Clean, if you wanted to, changing off a couple times a day.