Dealing with Supplier # 1 and their insane return policy

[sjssf]

Great point. I would have considered a few weeks ago but now I know I'm just going to get frustrated all over again. I'm at peace with the situation.
(By the way, I did call the manufacturer and he advised I send it back to the retailer, who insists I pay shipping while they decide if my claim is true. Good luck to all of you, I say!)

I bought a "multi night" battery. I have a one and a quarter night battery with plans to not shop online with Supplier #1 or buy anything from Transcend.

I will say, as a retailer, you have much more clout with the manufacturer than a single customer.

[StarkismyDog]

I had a similar experience with the same supplier. Got the really good deal with buying the multi-night battery packaged with the transcend 2, and was actually getting two 8 hour nights for a while. It just seems to me that all battery claims are inflated. I'm considering buying one of the Goal Zero batteries with a wall type outlet and use it to top up the battery to finish the second night. If I'm spending $300+ on a battery, it would be nice to have more functionality than just my cpap.

[Sleepster]

What we really need is for someone to come up with alternative way to heat the humidifier water. That would greatly extend the the lifetime of the battery. Maybe a fuel cell, which would of course require hydrogen gas as a fuel. Or maybe a propane-powered water heater. Solar cells are currently the best alternative to the grid when it comes to heating humidifier water.

[robysue]

What we really need is for someone to come up with alternative way to heat the humidifier water. That would greatly extend the the lifetime of the battery. Maybe a fuel cell, which would of course require hydrogen gas as a fuel. Or maybe a propane-powered water heater.

An open flame when you're using the PAP in a tent?

I think not.

Solar cells are currently the best alternative to the grid when it comes to heating humidifier water.

Probably this is true. But better batteries and more accurate battery advertising is needed.

[jaycee]

What we really need is for someone to come up with alternative way to heat the humidifier water. That would greatly extend the the lifetime of the battery. Maybe a fuel cell, which would of course require hydrogen gas as a fuel. Or maybe a propane-powered water heater. Solar cells are currently the best alternative to the grid when it comes to heating humidifier water.

I'm not sure I'm all that interested in sleeping next to a hydrogen fuel cell or even a propane tank.

I've seen the solar powered cell phone chargers. Eventually the technology will catch up where we can recharge a battery with enough life to run PAP + humidifier in this way.

[Terry]

I bought a "multi night" battery. I have a one and a quarter night battery with plans to not shop online with Supplier #1 or buy anything from Transcend.

Regardless of the claims, it's not possible to violate the laws of physics.

The maximum power required by a CPAP machine is stamped on the power supply.

Mine, for example, uses 60 watts, maximum. I measured it and it's closer to 50, depending on pressure and humidity settings, but that's a nice round number. My old machine used quite a bit more.

50 watts @ 12 volts = 4.2 Amps (approx).

4.2 Amps for 8 hours is 33.6 Amp-Hours, which requires a battery the same size as is generally used in golf-carts and which is much bigger than anything you'll find in a portable battery pack (or at least anything you would want to carry around).

The newer lithium-ion batteries have a higher power-to-weight ratio, but there's still no free lunch, and a little battery back is not going to run a CPAP machine and humidifier for a whole night.

When camping, I actually use a deep-cycle 100 amp-hour marine battery which I leave in the car, and run an extension cord to the tent.

Given the current state of battery technology, there is nothing I'm aware of that you would be happy to carry around, that would give you an entire night of usage with a humidifier and a medium or high pressure setting.

Now it is possible to run a CPAP with no humidifier on a relatively small battery, but at least for me, this isn't helpful, since I need the humidifier.

[Sleepster]

Mine, for example, uses 60 watts, maximum. I measured it and it's closer to 50, depending on pressure and humidity settings, but that's a nice round number. My old machine used quite a bit more.

Those watt meters are not expensive and can easily be used to measure this. They can also calculate the total energy used over an extended period of time, which is important because the humidifier heater will cycle on and off. You'll get a different wattage reading when this happens.

If you turn the humidifier off it'll greatly extend the life of the battery, in which case those low-weight lithium batteries will get you through the night, or maybe two nights.

The phrase "maybe two nights" is enough for advertisers to legally claim that it's a multi-night battery.

I saw another example of this type of lying on TV yesterday. One of the local energy providers advertises that they provide free electricity all night, every night. Does anyone actually believe that you can pay someone else to provide electricity during the day, and then use this company at night to provide free electricity?

Believing the multi-night claim is the same sort of thing. Regulated lying.

[Terry]

and was actually getting two 8 hour nights for a while. It just seems to me that all battery claims are inflated.

Pretty much all battery claims are inflated.

Also, long-term battery capacity is determined by charge and discharge rates. It's entirely possible to have a battery that can meet advertising claims a few times, then never again, since the discharge rate exceeds the manufacturer's recommendations, and actually damages the battery.

This as common in consumer-level goods although I have no way to know if it's true in this particular case.

There's some good info in the wiki: http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...tery_power

Disclaimer: The part at the bottom about a DIY solution is mine. It happily ran my old power-hungry CPAP and a box fan all night, for a long weekend. 8-)