Looking for Tech Manual for Dreamstation ASV

[SuperSleeper]

Rich, am I understanding correctly - that you're currently using a DreamStation BiPAP Auto SV, but you have an older PR System One ASV that needs to be repaired?

Not sure if you've looked into it, but Supplier #27 & 28 also do repairs - might want to check with them on prices.  Most of those places aren't going to be shipping parts out to end-users (unless you can somehow convince them to do it).  Most of them are official repair facilities who have agreements in place with CPAP manufacturers, so they're not likely to ship parts out to patients.

One option might be to find an old System One machine that's being sold on Craigslist or another non-DME venue, and salvaging parts from that.  Many parts are interchangeable on basic CPAPs vs. ASV (assuming the same series of machine) - and sometimes it's simply the firmware that's different.

[racprops]

Agree with Dave.

Rich, if your intent is to get the best possible therapy, the thing to do would be to download, install & use the OSCAR software, then start a new thread titled something like "Racprops's ASV therapy", then post some OSCAR charts for folks to look at and analyze so that they can recommend a course of action to fine-tune your therapy.  It's best to keep all your ASV therapy discussions in one thread so folks can see the history of your therapy and respond accordingly.

If you're unfamiliar with OSCAR, I'd start with reading the OSCAR Wiki here:
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php/OSCAR_Help

Also pay attention to the sections on how to organize your charts and taking a screenshot for posting on the forum.

it will take a bit of back-and-forth discussion, but that will likely bring you the best results.

Thanks but I have been using first Sleepyhead and now OSCAR from 2013....

I will do as your kindly suggested a thread Racprops's ASV therapy looking for help.

If you look at the partial chart I posted your can see on good nights things are great and better with the Dreamstation, but illratic for no reason, and I am NOT messing with any settings.

As its air flow or air volume seems to change a lot I Think that may be the problem.

Don't know, so thus this tread, trying to learn as much as possible on how it works.

I got a hint some settings can effect or control the air volume...I think I need it a little higher.

Rich

[Sleeprider]

Just to add to what Supersleeper has said. I live in Murrysville. I know the Philips corporate culture. This company does not discuss, or provide technical documentation of any kind to anyone that is not an authorized service provider, DME or physician, and those "customers" get as little as possible. Philips is extremely aggressive in limiting the distribution of useful technical information, let alone components and parts.

[racprops]

Gentlemen, your preaching to choir here, I have hammered on the castle barricades a number of times...

And they just cut off all parts and repairs to the System One 950s.

So NO ONE has motherboards so it cannot be fixed.

Unless we can find part suppliers.

The 960 can still rebuilt at a cost of $275.00.

I rather put that money towards a used Dreamstation ASV...as a back up.

But as I am a mechanical and electronics tech, I can fix these older ASV cheaply I would.

Even buying a used machine can be a too large a cost, especially with the likelihood of needing the very sensors as they seem the cause of most failures I have seen in two 950s and two 960s.

Rich

[racprops]

Well now if I can find a good FULL set of instructions of how to do a deep Titration, for a ASV machine more involved that this SIMPLE version:

http://incenter.medical.philips.com/docl...%3D9792335

Man that are just about as simple as:  put on mask and push the on button...

Rich

[Sleeprider]

I have used that reference many times to help users of the Philips Respironics machines, and disagree it is particularly helpful.  Let me compare the Philips Titration Protocol with the Resmed version below.  Aside from the fact they can't even spell "patient", the flow chart offers no suggestion on how to assess an address problems.  The auto algorithm without optimization of the EPAP is simply not that good.  The Resmed protocol is nothing to brag about, but at least they don't strand the patient at zero PS min and not make EPAP adjustments.  I know you disagree with me on this Rich, but my observation of individuals using the Resmed ASV is orders of magnitude better in preventing events, and providing more comfortable therapy is beyond anecdotal.  It's great you get good results with the Philips System One, but my perspective is that I have coached people through endless frustration with that machine, then usually watched them easily adapt to the Resmed with far better results. 


Philips BiPAP Auto SV



Resmed Aircurve 10 ASV Titration Protocol

[racprops]

I have used that reference many times to help users of the Philips Respironics machines, and disagree it is particularly helpful.  Let me compare the Philips Titration Protocol with the Resmed version below.  Aside from the fact they can't even spell "patient", the flow chart offers no suggestion on how to assess an address problems.  The auto algorithm without optimization of the EPAP is simply not that good.  The Resmed protocol is nothing to brag about, but at least they don't strand the patient at zero PS min and not make EPAP adjustments.  I know you disagree with me on this Rich, but my observation of individuals using the Resmed ASV is orders of magnitude better in preventing events, and providing more comfortable therapy is beyond anecdotal.  It's great you get good results with the Philips System One, but my perspective is that I have coached people through endless frustration with that machine, then usually watched them easily adapt to the Resmed with far better results. 


Philips BiPAP Auto SV



Resmed Aircurve 10 ASV Titration Protocol

Does the Resmed Titration system work on the Dreamstation??

I really hoped to see what they use in sleep studies Titration for ASV, and yes the Phillips chart is worthless...how do you tell what the highest settings and what is too much or wrong...

All I can say is when I was giving the lowly APAP machine I tried a ResMed unit and could not stand it. After the help I received from Phillips and the then failure of two Systems One units in about 5 years I was not all that happy with them, and I really want to switch companies....

I tried to rent a ASV machine yesterday and NONE could be had. I would consider renting a ResMed ASV system as a try out, but I hate to buy one and then return it.

Question is is Resmed as hard to deal with as Phillips?? Hard to think they could be as bad.

If you able to arrange a lone or rental of a ResMed ASV for a month I would be very happy to try it. 

I REALLY need good sleep with good deep and rem sleep other wise I am dead all day.

Classic I did everything right, the machines report great nights with low AHIs and YET I am so tired al day.

It is the KIND of sleep no deep and no rem is worthless sleep.

Is no sleep CLINICALs here??

They should be able to help.

Rich

[SarcasticDave94]

If you have similar pressure setting controls on your SV Auto as the ResMed ASV, as in EPAP Min/Max and PS Min/Max, it is possible to emulate possibly pretty close to a ResMed titration. Even if it's not close, I myself if I were you would try to simulate the ResMed titration anyway. No sarcasm, what have you got to lose by trying it? And I am not trying to throw gas on a fire, but I've had the ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV, and it does work well. I personally think the reasoning the ResMed APAP failed you is the fact that you already needed an ASV at that point in time. In that scenario, any brand APAP would fail you.

[Sleeprider]

Resmed takes much the same position as Philips when it comes to dealing with patients, however, you will find a lot more technical details about the machines and clinical studies that went into developing the algorithms. If anything, Resmed is guilty of funding a lot of studies that end up showing their machines work better to prevent events, but at least it's something.

I don't know why you had problems adapting to a Resmed ASV, but my experinece has been that most users overcome early sleep disruption, and all users show a lot more residual hypopnea and apnea with Philips than with the Resmed. Therer are elements of the Respironics auto algorithms that have been around forever, and fight for control of the machine. The effect of BiFlex and the other Flex algorithms is so obscure, we don't really know how it is affecting therapy, but Resmed's Easybreathe™ is very transparent and evident in the mask pressure graph that is rendered at 25 Hrz. The way the ASV responds to maintain minute vent based on the previous 90 second minute vent is very transparent vs the settings or auto setting of the SV. I think the ASV could benefit from having some manual over-ride settings for respiration rate and tidal volume as the SV offers. It does surprisingly well, considering that it relies on auto algorithms for nearly everything it does.

[racprops]

If you have similar pressure setting controls on your SV Auto as the ResMed ASV, as in EPAP Min/Max and PS Min/Max, it is possible to emulate possibly pretty close to a ResMed titration. Even if it's not close, I myself if I were you would try to simulate the ResMed titration anyway. No sarcasm, what have you got to lose by trying it? And I am not trying to throw gas on a fire, but I've had the ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV, and it does work well. I personally think the reasoning the ResMed APAP failed you is the fact that you already needed an ASV at that point in time. In that scenario, any brand APAP would fail you.

I partly agree with you about the ASV, but I was 100% unable to uses a ResMed APAP where I was able to use a Dreamstation APAP.

I think I all ready have the ASV titration instructions if all we get is the same for all ASV machine in a print out:

"Philips autoSV acclimation zone"...it is much more complex, but it is old and I thought there would be newer instructions for the new Dreamstation ASV.

If you do not have a copy I will scan it and post it.

Rich

---

Resmed takes much the same position as Philips when it comes to dealing with patients, however, you will find a lot more technical details about the machines and clinical studies that went into developing the algorithms. If anything, Resmed is guilty of funding a lot of studies that end up showing their machines work better to prevent events, but at least it's something.

I don't know why you had problems adapting to a Resmed ASV, but my experinece has been that most users overcome early sleep disruption, and all users show a lot more residual hypopnea and apnea with Philips than with the Resmed.  Therer are elements of the Respironics auto algorithms that have been around forever, and fight for control of the machine.  The effect of BiFlex and the other Flex algorithms is so obscure, we don't really know how it is affecting therapy, but Resmed's Easybreathe™ is very transparent and evident in the mask pressure graph that is rendered at 25 Hrz. The way the ASV responds to maintain minute vent based on the previous 90 second minute vent is very transparent vs the settings or auto setting of the SV.  I think the ASV could benefit from having some manual over-ride settings for respiration rate and tidal volume as the SV offers.  It does surprisingly well, considering that it relies on auto algorithms for nearly everything it does.

Sorry it was APAP machine in both cases. Not a ASV.

your second paragrapht is very interesting...

Rich