[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[Glen e]

sorry, I think some of this anti ozone paranoia is just that. I WOULD NEVER USE IT ON MY MACHINE but I think its fine for your mask and tubing. I rinse my mask and tubing for 10 min with hot water after a respify cycle and then hang it up for a couple weeks while I use my duplicate gear.

Does anyone have a link to a scientific paper showing that ozone hangs around after rinsing and letting it dissapate on the mask and tubing for several days?

[Crimson Nape]

Before you get into a topic slide, here is the thread dedicated to ALL SoClean posts. SoClean Shortcut Link

[Guilhermedico]

sorry, I think some of this anti ozone paranoia is just that. I WOULD NEVER USE IT ON MY MACHINE  but I think its fine for your mask and tubing. I rinse my mask and tubing for 10 min with hot water after a respify cycle and then hang it up for a couple weeks while I use my duplicate gear.

Does anyone have a link to a scientific paper showing that ozone hangs around after rinsing and letting it dissapate on the mask and tubing for several days?

Let me start by emphasizing -- so my post does not get kicked out of this thread by the moderators -- that this is NOT a rant about SoClean. I have never owned that brand but I did purchase a generic ozone generator from Amazon at the end of December 2020. After two months, that device turned my brand new masks and forehead cushions the yellow color shown in the photo. Compare that to the still "clean" look of the ResMed AirFit F20 mask I have been using for over three months.

While I am NOT a polymer chemist, this discoloration certainly gave me pause about what the effect of ozone may be on other polymers, including that contributing to the decomposition of the Philips Respironics soundproofing foam, leading to the recall.

I, for one, would NEVER again use ozone on either my PAP masks or my PAP devices.

[Glen e]

A perfect example of why I’m looking for scientific data versus anecdotal . Here’s some more anecdotal for you :my brother and I both have used use the respify stystem for the better part of three years total and neither of us have had any shading or degradation whatsoever of our equipment -it still looks like the first day that we ever used it and we both use the respify every two weeks.

[WakeUpTime]

If anyone wishes to read about ResMed's response to the Philips recall, they can search "resmed other manufacturer recall 2021".  It should be the first selection.  This is not to suggest that ResMed is the only other PAP manufacturer.  One may also wish to look at other manufacturer responses.

ResMed

Information regarding Philips' recall
(Updated: June 29, 2021)

...

At this time of considerable increase in demand for ResMed products, we are doing everything we can to increase our manufacturing of sleep and respiratory care devices, so we can get them to the patients who need them most.

...

[*Removed web-site links to ensure compliance with board rules.]

[btreger]

Some interesting info on Philips;

In April, Philips said first-quarter core earnings surged 74% to 362 million euros compared with the same period a year earlier, on a 9% rise in comparable sales.

It seems to me that the release of their involuntary recall came after they reported this information, solely aimed at their shareholders in my opinion.

Around two-thirds of Philips, CPAP machine sales are in the United States.

This raises a few questions;

1. Why aren't the remaining one-third of their products being recalled?
2. Why have there been no medical warnings issued by other countries? 

[Guilhermedico]

A perfect example of why I’m looking for scientific data versus anecdotal . Here’s some more anecdotal for you :my brother and I both have used use the respify stystem for the better part of three years total and neither of us have had any shading or degradation whatsoever of our equipment -it still looks like the first day that we ever used it and we both use the respify every two weeks.

I suspect that the amount of and the time to achieving foam degeneration / cushion discoloration is directly proportional to the quantity of ozone generated by these units. Once again, this is anecdotal and does not fulfill your quest for a quantitative and qualitative comparison, published in a reputable journal, of one ozone-generating system vs another.

That said, I did own a previous generic ozone-generator purchased from Amazon, which I used before the pandemic when I was traveling a lot. That unit did not cause the intense discoloration shown by the newer ozone-generator in my previous post. But of interest, the prior unit was also not associated with the intense, fetid ozone odor produced by the later ozone-generator that did cause the mask cushion discoloration.

[btreger]

Some interesting info on Philips;

In April, Philips said first-quarter core earnings surged 74% to 362 million euros compared with the same period a year earlier, on a 9% rise in comparable sales.

It seems to me that the release of their involuntary recall came after they reported this information, solely aimed at their shareholders in my opinion.

Around two-thirds of Philips, CPAP machine sales are in the United States.

This raises a few questions;

1. Why aren't the remaining one-third of their products being recalled?
2. Why have there been no medical warnings issued by other countries? 

A few more facts;

From Philips Chief Executive Frans van Houten

"We're going to put all our capacity to focus entirely on replacing and repairing these units," Van Houten said in a call, a process he said would likely take a year.

That "has a consequence that we will not be able to serve new customers, so there's going to be a shortage in the field".

[WakeUpTime]

Some interesting info on Philips;

Having one all-encompassing thread when their are so many related subjects will be a challenge for viewers to go through.  Ideally, this one general thread might have its own group of sub-threads, if it's indeed true (from a previous HME magazine U.S. survey) that as many as 60% of end-users may be using Philips (now recalled) systems.  If that's still true today, it's a massive shock to the industry where 60% of PAP users are immediately instructed to halt using their PAP machines, and without being provided with an immediate future "fix" or replacement, for a medical device that's deemed necessary for most users.

There are indeed many possible related sub-topics to the Philips Recall:

- Philips corporate news, that may be related to the recall
- Other manufacturers foam and company responses
- Developing legal actions from end-users
- Foam-removal steps for recalled Philips systems
- Philips recall in other (non-U.S.) countries
- Analyses of Philips defective foam (photos, reports, etc.)
- etc.

Regarding Philips' Q1-2021 increase over Q1-2020, I suppose the massive ventilator sales revenues didn't come in until perhaps after March 2020, as a result of COVID.  Early Q1-2020 purchases might have just been to wipe-out Philips dealer inventories of invasive ventilators, and didn't represent new sales directly from Philips.  It'll be interesting how Q2-2021 sales compare to Q2-2020.

It will be interesting how quasi shipments are reflected in future sales and earnings reports:
- shipments of DreamStation 2 units to replace dealer-returned DreamStation 1 units
- shipments of DreamStation 2 (and other Philips units) to replace newer recent purchases by users, hospitals, sleep centers, etc.
- complimentary shipments of DreamStation 2 units to dealers to entice them back to marketing the Philips brand to users

Philips has already taken the "EURO 500 Million" charge over two different quarters to spread it out.  That represents merely $170 per Philips recalled system, assuming there are 3.5 Million recalled devices.  The only step Philips has taken (for end-users) is to request registration details - and instruct them to stop using their machines (see their doctor, etc.).  Philips likely has no real accurate number of actual active recalled Philips machines.  

This is going to take a significant amount of time to complete in the U.S. and internationally.  Philips may be counting on that as they prefer costs to be spread out over multiple quarters, so-as not to more dramatically affect their ongoing stock price.  Sadly, the ongoing COVID-related issues in 3rd world countries (that may last another year or more) may significantly benefit Philips financially, from sales of invasive ventilators.  The strength in current & future sales of those units will help to offset the recall costs within this product division.  Also, many countries are now investing significantly more for their country's medical reserves for potential future needs.  Philips will have to sufficiently accommodate all countries if they hope to continue selling other medical systems, unrelated to the recall.

1. Why aren't the remaining one-third [devices outside the U.S.] of their products being recalled?
2. Why have there been no medical warnings issued by other countries? 

I believe the financial cost to Philips is going to grow continually as class-action lawsuits develop and other countries begin to demand action from Philips.  Some of those countries may have quite socialized medical systems, with the country actually be the "purchaser" rather than a DME.  They may simply demand (quietly) that Philips immediately replace (or "fix") their (e.g.) 20,000 defective units - if Philips wishes to continue to have access to that country.  Working with a country, rather than a small DME, is quite a different experience altogether.  

Philips is likely taking a more personalized approach to all other countries.  There is likely ongoing communications between the Philips country representative and their respective countries.  All E.U. countries are likely grouped together in a response, however Philips might get a lot of corporate protection too from the E.U.  Canada is part of the U.S. recall I believe.  Australia's in an interesting position, as they really don't need Philips, but the E.U. might retaliate.  I'm not sure about others.

[Philips]  ... "has a consequence that we will

not be able to serve new customers,

so there's going to be a shortage in the field".

Indeed.  That will result in a lot of related consequences for Philips, and others.  One year from now however, Philips may invest significant marketing dollars into the (end-user) PAP segment again.  Borrowing money and resources from other divisions certainly helps.  Once DMEs start getting complimentary Philips systems, volume discounts, free non-system Philips products for promoting Philips systems, free tickets to entertainment events, conventions, seminars, etc., DMEs will likely aggressively promote Philips systems again.

[Psikic]

I'm so thankful for this forum!  I have a PR DreamStation which I bought new when I started CPAP therapy in October 2020.  As soon as I heard about the recall, contacted my DME and Philips, and could get answers from no one.  I contacted my Dr, who initially told me to discontinue use of the machine.  I went a single night without the machine and woke up with a horrible headache and increased BP from my severe OSA.  I decided right then and there I had to have a machine and would use the DreamStation anyway.  That afternoon, I found that #10 on this forum's CPAP supplier list had Resmed AirSense 10 machines refurbished and in stock for less than $500.  The Dr gave me a new prescription right away and I bought one out of pocket (and for less than the original insurance CoPay on the DreamStation!)  and it has been working great.  Now I'm irritated that I didn't choose ResMed from the start, because I'll never use a PR machine again.  And for anyone looking for one, they still have the ResMed machine refurbished (mine looked brand new) for less than $500 in stock.  All of the PR masks and hoses still work just fine with the ResMed machine.