Suggestion: Try filming yourself

[3rdMarDiv]

I've really been getting into my apnea/cpap condition. I study the OSCAR reports, my DreamMapper results, any info I can find. I've been able to draw a few conclusions with the main one being that my apnea events are nicely clustered. I have sleep for awhile and then a bunch of closely timed rhythmic events happen for differing durations of time. 

I took my security camera and put it on a tripod next to my bed. The recording and OSCAR are synced in time by the computer so I can go to a second mark in OSCAR to that same second on the recording and vise versa. Studying this information I can see what a CA looks like when it happens to me after cpap reaction. Sharp rise in upper torso, the machine is louder from increasing pressure and a number of other reactions. It's not pretty and looks like a mini defibrillator was applied to me.

After looking at all the information for awhile I learned that the events happened always when I slept on my back. They started to the exact second when I moved to my back and stopped to exact second when I changed to my side. I mean literally to within one second when I changed position.

The night looked like the left and right sides of the cluster in the middle.

   

(OSCAR is not fully functional with my machine yet so apnea events are not marked)

I don't know if it will help you, but if nothing else, it is interesting and maybe you will learn something.

Now, if I can just figure how to not sleep on my back...  

[ardenum]

Can you sleep on the stomach?

[3rdMarDiv]

Somehow I wind back on my back. I’m going to keep working on stomach sleeping until I stay there most of the time. Also making small increase in Epap. I will get this.

I just never would have known without the time synced camera.

Now that I found my enemy I can attack it...LOL

Thanks

[2SleepBetta]

I've really been getting into my apnea/cpap condition. I study the OSCAR reports, my DreamMapper results, any info I can find. I've been able to draw a few conclusions with the main one being that my apnea events are nicely clustered. I have sleep for awhile and then a bunch of closely timed rhythmic events happen for differing durations of time. 

I took my security camera and put it on a tripod next to my bed. The recording and OSCAR are synced in time by the computer so I can go to a second mark in OSCAR to that same second on the recording and vise versa. Studying this information I can see what a CA looks like when it happens to me after cpap reaction. Sharp rise in upper torso, the machine is louder from increasing pressure and a number of other reactions. It's not pretty and looks like a mini defibrillator was applied to me.

After looking at all the information for awhile I learned that the events happened always when I slept on my back. They started to the exact second when I moved to my back and stopped to exact second when I changed to my side. I mean literally to within one second when I changed position.

The night looked like the left and right sides of the cluster in the middle.



(OSCAR is not fully functional with my machine yet so apnea events are not marked)

I don't know if it will help you, but if nothing else, it is interesting and maybe you will learn something.

Now, if I can just figure how to not sleep on my back...  

I've marched a few steps along a path parallel to yours--but only, thankyou sir, 3rdMarDiv--in doing all I could to find and apply everything that might reduce my sleep apnea.

The camera idea was suggested to me, too, and I may yet go that way, but I went the way of using an accelerometer to indicate sleeping positions and motions. I hoped (still do) to evaluate and benefit from learning how significant my many sleep motions are in reducing sleep quality, coinciding as many of them do with flow rate, tidal volume and, until getting the AirCurve VAuto, my now-vanished snore spikes. 


It seems likely that the VAuto is better than my AirSense 10 Autoset was at distinguishing snore from mere breathing irregularities that arise from body shifts. The Autoset falsely reported huge snore spikes at the first moment of airing up with AutoOn after getting settled into bed. That cast doubt on other indications of snore, at least at instants of motion, but I haven't refined time synching technique enough to know which comes first, a snore or a motion that falsely is signaled as snore by my AutoSet-Sleepyhead pairing. 


The link below is to a post with my experience detailed, including a chart from use of the accelerometer alternative. It might prompt something useful to you, just as your report has done for me about your well synchronized, time efficient camera method. It would be helpful to see details of the camera, program, and setup. One reason I didn't go the camera route was I am not up on photography at all.

The accelerometer device provided, in the instance shown and in many others, clear evidence that I will have obstructive apnea clusters when sleeping near supine position in addition to the questionable sleep motions. Anyway, the post showed how I had to deal with finding my self on my back. Few would put up with my "backpack" method, but, it's no problem for me and has me down to 0.4 for 12 mo and 0.1 for more than 6 mo., with strings of zeroes. Of course getting to those numbers should be and is secondary to getting better sleep, even if numbers might suffer. But you know all that, too.

Unexpectedly, the accelerometer has revealed that I have a lot of what I'll call erratic breaths (probably innocuous) that produce one to two wave flow rate spike patterns when there are and have been no flow limitations, snores or bodily motions in the neighborhood (at least with the particular sampling rate, deadzone and dwell settings I use for the device). I suspect a lot of signals we see or that are infrequently scored are perfectly normal, present in the best of sleepers. I guess that's why measuring and evaluating brain waves of sleepers is the definitive diagnostic tool for difficult questions.

Best of luck and fruitful research.

2SB


Here's the link http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...me-changer

[3rdMarDiv]

Can you sleep on the stomach?

Yep and I gave it a go last night. I checked my chart this morning and had events lasting 7 minutes. I thought I had slept on my stomach all night. After I checked the video I found I was on my back for exactly those 7 minutes. I had woke up after the 7 minutes and went back on my stomach. 

The only events I had were during those 7 minutes. 
Looking more like some or a big part of my apnea is sleeping position orientated...  

I'm going to stay on this and see how well I can train myself to stay off my back and keep my tongue from falling back.

[yrnkrn]

It's very common to have only (or more severe) apneas when sleeping on your back. For many people it's also very hard to avoid it. After a while you MUST turn and sleep on the back no matter what. Once I tried using a backpack with a basketball inside and found myself waking from sleep, on my back with the basketball still between me and the bed.

[3rdMarDiv]

I've really been getting into my apnea/cpap condition. I study the OSCAR reports, my DreamMapper results, any info I can find. I've been able to draw a few conclusions with the main one being that my apnea events are nicely clustered. I have sleep for awhile and then a bunch of closely timed rhythmic events happen for differing durations of time. 

I took my security camera and put it on a tripod next to my bed. The recording and OSCAR are synced in time by the computer so I can go to a second mark in OSCAR to that same second on the recording and vise versa. Studying this information I can see what a CA looks like when it happens to me after cpap reaction. Sharp rise in upper torso, the machine is louder from increasing pressure and a number of other reactions. It's not pretty and looks like a mini defibrillator was applied to me.

After looking at all the information for awhile I learned that the events happened always when I slept on my back. They started to the exact second when I moved to my back and stopped to exact second when I changed to my side. I mean literally to within one second when I changed position.

The night looked like the left and right sides of the cluster in the middle.



(OSCAR is not fully functional with my machine yet so apnea events are not marked)

I don't know if it will help you, but if nothing else, it is interesting and maybe you will learn something.

Now, if I can just figure how to not sleep on my back...  

I've marched a few steps along a path parallel to yours--but only, thankyou sir, 3rdMarDiv--in doing all I could to find and apply everything that might reduce my sleep apnea.

The camera idea was suggested to me, too, and I may yet go that way, but I went the way of using an accelerometer to indicate sleeping positions and motions. I hoped (still do) to evaluate and benefit from learning how significant my many sleep motions are in reducing sleep quality, coinciding as many of them do with flow rate, tidal volume and, until getting the AirCurve VAuto, my now-vanished snore spikes. 


It seems likely that the VAuto is better than my AirSense 10 Autoset was at distinguishing snore from mere breathing irregularities that arise from body shifts. The Autoset falsely reported huge snore spikes at the first moment of airing up with AutoOn after getting settled into bed. That cast doubt on other indications of snore, at least at instants of motion, but I haven't refined time synching technique enough to know which comes first, a snore or a motion that falsely is signaled as snore by my AutoSet-Sleepyhead pairing. 


The link below is to a post with my experience detailed, including a chart from use of the accelerometer alternative. It might prompt something useful to you, just as your report has done for me about your well synchronized, time efficient camera method. It would be helpful to see details of the camera, program, and setup. One reason I didn't go the camera route was I am not up on photography at all.

The accelerometer device provided, in the instance shown and in many others, clear evidence that I will have obstructive apnea clusters when sleeping near supine position in addition to the questionable sleep motions. Anyway, the post showed how I had to deal with finding my self on my back. Few would put up with my "backpack" method, but, it's no problem for me and has me down to 0.4 for 12 mo and 0.1 for more than 6 mo., with strings of zeroes. Of course getting to those numbers should be and is secondary to getting better sleep, even if numbers might suffer. But you know all that, too.

Unexpectedly, the accelerometer has revealed that I have a lot of what I'll call erratic breaths (probably innocuous) that produce one to two wave flow rate spike patterns when there are and have been no flow limitations, snores or bodily motions in the neighborhood (at least with the particular sampling rate, deadzone and dwell settings I use for the device). I suspect a lot of signals we see or that are infrequently scored are perfectly normal, present in the best of sleepers. I guess that's why measuring and evaluating brain waves of sleepers is the definitive diagnostic tool for difficult questions.

Best of luck and fruitful research.

2SB


Here's the link http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...me-changer

Started looking at the link you sent and will do in more detail. Already seeing some interesting points. 

Last night I tried sleeping on my stomach only. This morning my chart looked great (No Events) except for 7 minutes. Looked at the video and sure enough I had worked onto my back and bingo-there were all the events. I had woke up and went back on my stomach and spent the rest of the night event free. 

Thanks for the info...

[3rdMarDiv]

It's very common to have only (or more severe) apneas when sleeping on your back. For many people it's also very hard to avoid it. After a while you MUST turn and sleep on the back no matter what. Once I tried using a backpack with a basketball inside and found myself waking from sleep, on my back with the basketball still between me and the bed.

I'm going to keep working on this and I could be wrong..  
but I'm thinking that I only have events when I'm on my back..  

Looking back some time now I'm seeing a group of events, then nothing, then a group...Makes me wonder.

Only just started with the video work.
I'll let ya know soon enough. What I can do about it...That's another question...  

[3rdMarDiv]

Getting faster at waking up from these poor breathing events. Last night did not reach OA Event Apnea level. Left side was back sleeping and right side was stomach sleeping. Woke up and told myself to stay on my stomach and did so rest of the night. Holding my AHI down as well.

The main hope I see existing right now is repetitious mind training.

I find my machine has an alarm for non-breathing events. Starts at 10 seconds. Well see how that works. 

   

[Snoring Bear]

Getting faster at waking up from these poor breathing events. Last night did not reach OA Event Apnea level. Left side was back sleeping and right side was stomach sleeping. Woke up and told myself to stay on my stomach and did so rest of the night. Holding my AHI down as well.

The main hope I see existing right now is repetitious mind training.

I find my machine has an alarm for non-breathing events. Starts at 10 seconds. Well see how that works. 

 
3rdMarDiv-

Are you using a soft cervical collar yet?  -  If not, that would be great to do.  It will help to stop the clustered events, even when sleeping on your back! -  The clustered events are a result of "positional apnea".  Here's a link to info about that:  http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...onal_Apnea

Also, here's a link from this forum that deals with sleeping on your back.   You'll see mention of tennis balls as a possible cure.   Lots of good tips in this link:

http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...nnis+balls

Good luck!