Vivid Dreams

[MouthBreatha]

What can anyone tell me about vivid dreams while on CPAP. I get very vivid dreams throughout the night while on CPAP; not just late morning like I used to get, but all night long. Is that normal and what is going on? What's the dynamics behind this and is is beneficial?
Thanks,
Rich

[Shastzi]

You are probably getting some decent sleep patterns established for the first time since
the cows came home.

Just my S.W.A.G.

[MouthBreatha]

Thanks for the reply. To quote another post:

************* I have read that there is usually a REM rebound (when REM has been lacking) and there is a SWS (slow wave sleep) rebound when Stage 3 NREM sleep is lacking. This means much more REM or SWS will occur. Apparently the brain orders up extra SWS (SWS rebound) in greater quantities than extra REM (REM rebound) to make up for past deficits.

You may be experiencing more REM, and therefore more times a night when you wake up having just dreamed, and increases the chance that emotional reaction will occur once awakening.

The good news about this is you are probably getting this bad feeling because you are getting better sleep. Wait, what? Well, yeah. ****************


So does this sound more clinical to what you are talking about. This user also mentions that Antidepressants or antianxiety medication can interfere with REM sleep. I am on a medication for anxiety and I wonder if that is my biggest culprit for being so tired all the time. The medication itself can cause sleepiness, but I am wondering if it can also cause REM sleep disturbances. Any thoughts? Thanks again.

[alby_c]

I do not know the clinical definitions etc but I do know I had much more vivid dreams for about the first 6 months of therapy but it settled down after that. I still get the occasional night, but that is usually attributable to pizza these days.

[eseedhouse]

Any sedative on anxiolytic medication can disturb sleep patterns. Ideally we should not take them if we are apnea sufferers, but there are conditions where they may well be necessary in spite of that. I take Alprazolam (Xanax) at bedtime and find it helpful, and my AHI numbers remain very low, usually below one. If you take them and find your AHI numbers going up over 5 you should probably try not to use them.

[Jim Bronson]

Any sedative on anxiolytic medication can disturb sleep patterns. Ideally we should not take them if we are apnea sufferers, but there are conditions where they may well be necessary in spite of that. I take Alprazolam (Xanax) at bedtime and find it helpful, and my AHI numbers remain very low, usually below one. If you take them and find your AHI numbers going up over 5 you should probably try not to use them.

I take it too, but I've recently read that any benzo or sedative med can increase centrals., I'm trying to cut back, since centrals are usually more than 50% of my AHI, even though it us almost always less than 3.

[MouthBreatha]

I take chlordiazepoxide and it may be affecting how I feel as a direct result of taking it...sleepiness a few hours after taking it. I've taken it for years thinking it wasn't giving me any side effects, but maybe it is. As for sleeping, my AHI numbers are very good, always under 2, like under 1 or a little over. I think other numbers are good too. When I did a sleep test, my AHI was 5 and the other number ( i forget what index it is) was 15. I just wonder if the chlordiazepoxide is messing up sleep patterns in some way which could be an added hit.

[me50]

Thanks for the reply. To quote another post:

************* I have read that there is usually a REM rebound (when REM has been lacking) and there is a SWS (slow wave sleep) rebound when Stage 3 NREM sleep is lacking. This means much more REM or SWS will occur. Apparently the brain orders up extra SWS (SWS rebound) in greater quantities than extra REM (REM rebound) to make up for past deficits.

You may be experiencing more REM, and therefore more times a night when you wake up having just dreamed, and increases the chance that emotional reaction will occur once awakening.

The good news about this is you are probably getting this bad feeling because you are getting better sleep. Wait, what? Well, yeah. ****************


So does this sound more clinical to what you are talking about. This user also mentions that Antidepressants or antianxiety medication can interfere with REM sleep. I am on a medication for anxiety and I wonder if that is my biggest culprit for being so tired all the time. The medication itself can cause sleepiness, but I am wondering if it can also cause REM sleep disturbances. Any thoughts? Thanks again.

I don't know if the medication you are taking causes anything you ask about (not sure what medication you are taking). I was told that lavender gel caps aids in calming and helps with anxiety. Yes, I forgot to add that before you take anything over the counter, etc., check with your doctor for interactions with medications that you are taking. I thought I put this but I obviously put it in another post.

I like anything that works and isn't a prescription medication. YMMV

[eseedhouse]

I take it too, but I've recently read that any benzo or sedative med can increase centrals., I'm trying to cut back, since centrals are usually more than 50% of my AHI, even though it us almost always less than 3.

I mostly only get hypopnias. I am on supplemental oxygen and that appears to help with the centrals while the machine takes care of the obstructiv episodes.

My main problem is having to get up to urinate a lot, well two or three times a night. I have yet to get a straight seven hours in, though I got close one night last week. I'm on some meds for that, but they don't seem to help a lot.

[DocWils]

Firstly, the idea that you only dream in REM state is now proven to be a myth - instead, REM sleep is associated with a specific emotional state of dreaming (negative) while NREM sleep is associated with another emotional state of dreaming (positive). In short, when we sleep, no matter what state, once past a certain barrier level, we dream. When suffering from sleep apnoea, your entire pattern of sleep is interrupted, and dreaming becomes spotty and fragmented, if at all, but once one is no longer having an interrupted pattern, the natural pattern of sleep is restored and one's dreams become more regularly accessible and more vivid. Since you only remember, even for a fleeting few minutes, the last dreams before you fully wake, the nature of the dream, positive or negative, will be determined by what part of the sleep cycle you are in at the point that you start to rise from your deeper sleep.

REM rebound and sleep debt and the like are myths. Test subjects who deliberately are sleep deprived or forced into interrupted sleep for two weeks are returned to completely normal sleep patterns in one night and need neither extra sleep to make up for the deficit nor do they experience any sort of stage rebound effect. It takes longer when you have gone ten years having an interrupted sleep pattern, as the brain has to relearn the sleep cycle, having become used to getting ripped out of sleep several times per night, but it re-establishes itself remarkably quickly, so it is probably not really a learned aspect but a natural aspect of our brain's hygiene.

This is a novelty to the brain if it is used to being interrupted all night, and so you will remember your dreams as more vivid, but in fact, what you are really experiencing is your dreams as they should happen. With time the effect seems less marked, for the same reason as always - you get used to what was once a novelty. An example is when I recently switched to a spring mattress after 28 years of sleeping on a futon - my dreaming changed completely, as I now could achieve a more restful sleep than I did on the much harder surface of the futon, which would require me to constantly shift in my sleep to avoid pressure pains. Over time, the effect became less marked. I am currently in London teaching for a few weeks and so have a markedly lighter schedule with immensely less pressure, and an even softer bed and different pillow, and again, my dreams have become more vivid, very interesting and informative, and rather entertaining in an odd, intellectual way. So, as my resting pattern and sleep pressures change, so do my experiences of my dreams. This is perfectly normal (LOVE London, btw - I may retire here).

As for using sleeping aids - well, if you don't need them, don't use them - even natural sleep aids will change your sleep patterns and levels of sleep. While Valerian will do the least harm in this respect (it really is simply a calming agent and helps you to sleep, more, I suspect, from the alcohol is it suspended in than the valerian itself), even it has an effect on the depth of your sleep, initially. All sleeping aids, natural or other wise, build dependencies, either psychological or physiological, after a few regular uses, so it is best to avoid them. Find other ways to build good sleep hygiene, accept that you may have up to a week or more of a hard time getting to sleep, and get off them if you can, resorting to them only when necessary. Naturally, you may have other reasons for having a hard time getting to sleep - certain medications and the like, but on the whole, it is better to find another way than resorting to sleeping aids. As for natural methods, please check with your pharmacist, as many, including lavender gel caps, can interact negatively with certain medications.