WARNING to CPAP Users: PREPARE for the Unexpected - When the power goes out

[RayBee]

The answer is - none of significance.

I can go without being on my ASV for a couple weeks with no ill effects. Other than the wife complaining of my snoring.

Also, our power outages are usually only a few minutes to a few hours as SMUD seems to be able to switch us easily to a different part of the grid quickly. The longest power outage was about 4 hours during the day. Nighttime, just a few minutes.

Maybe we are just lucky. Fortunately a backup power source isn’t a huge concern for me and my particular situation.

[SuperSleeper]

I would love to have a recommendation for a UPS - Uninterrupted Power Supply-- for a ResMed AirCurve 10.

Does anyone have any recommedations?

Are you primarily  interested in surge protection or power backup?

While a good quality $80-200 UPS will provide good surge protection for your CPAP machine, most of the common household-small-office UPS devices are equipped with a very small low-amp-hour lead-acid battery with only enough stored energy to allow an average personal computer & monitor about 10-15 minutes of reserve power (enough to give someone time to save work and power the PC down, which is what they were designed to do).   Remember that, for instance, an 8-amp hour battery does not equate to running your CPAP for 8 hours (common misunderstanding).  And if you run-down one of those cheap lead-acid UPS batteries much below 50% charge several times, you're likely doing damage to the battery.

Using a UPS for surge protection is a good idea, but if you're expecting it to give you hours and hours of "emergency power" for your CPAP during a black-out, it will fail miserably at that, in addition to the loud "beep, beep, beep" alarm (keeping you awake) that most UPS devices have built-in to them during power outages.  UPS isn't going to work very well for power backup, unless of course, you're willing to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of dollars for a higher-end UPS that has very large batteries, in  which case you'd be better off to invest in a dedicated emergency power backup system.


If you're looking for a good basic UPS (for CPAP surge protection only), this is one that I recently purchased for around $125:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FN8G0S?th=1

But I don't bother using that on my CPAP - it's for my personal computer.  But you could use it for your CPAP if you're primarily interested in surge protection - it would be pretty useless for anything more than a few minutes of CPAP run-time.

For my CPAP machine, I simply have a good quality $20 surge protector, like this one rated at 2,500 Joules:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002QPZXH2?th=1

For black-outs, I have a small solar panel & deep cycle golf cart battery setup for my emergency CPAP power.  A few years ago, I started off with one of those Harbor Freight solar panel kits and a 12-volt deep cycle "marine" battery.  I've since upgraded my setup.  And, these days, there's some very portable systems you can utilize as well for power backup (usually more expensive), like this one that uses a lithium-ion battery, and many other types that are specifically designed for CPAP usage some of which you can find on the various DME websites listed on the Supplier List.

Just don't be fooled into thinking that a $100 UPS is going to power your CPAP machine for an extended time period.  If you're using a heated humidifier, forget about it for sure, as heating something uses an enormous amount of electrical power.

[GregB777]

Hello.

Thank you for the extensive reply!

You provided a lot of information!   Perhaps this might narrow things down:

What I want is an in-line UPS that will automatically kick in when there is a power outage.  I don't care that it's a surge protector--- that doesn't matter to me at all.  I also have no price limit.  It doesn't matter to me how many hundreds of dollars it costs, or thousands--- as long as it will kick in and provide up to 8 hours of power to the BiPAP when there is a power outage.

Does such a device actually exist? 

I want to be able to plug and play--- that is, plug the device into the wall and have it hold its charge if there is a power outage.  I don't want to be bothered with solar panels or anything like that--- unless there is no other way to do it.

Again, price is not a concern.

Thanks again for your help!


Greg B

[SuperSleeper]

Hmm.. okay, I was assuming that you're looking for a standard small home-office UPS to solve the power issues.  Those generally won't work for you, other than to provide surge protection and a few minutes of power.

If cost is no object, and you're looking for something that will automatically kick in and supply electrical power (without you having to get up and flip a switch or do something manually), then you can always go with a whole-house generator.  Generac is one of the popular name-brands.  But those run in the thousands of dollars and will supply power to your whole house during a black-out.  I believe they're powered primarily on natural gas or propane.  Installation and integration with your household electrical system is a major part of the cost.  That's going to be the nicest setup for you.  My in-laws have one of those and they love it.

I'm not sure of any of the lower-cost solutions will automatically kick in for you (on most of those, you're going to have to physically unplug your CPAP from the house outlet and plug it into the backup system).

Of course, there are some higher-end UPS that supply up to a few hours of backup, assuming you have only a CPAP machine attached and not a heated humidifier.  But again, don't expect to get a full 8 hours out of the smaller devices.  As with everything, if cost is no object, you can indeed get a UPS that will power your CPAP machine for several nights -- it's just a matter of cost and figuring out the amp-hours you'll get with each UPS' battery setup.  If you go that route, probably Lithium-Ion is going to be the route you'd like to go, and you'll need professional help to determine which high-end UPS is best for you, given the load requirement for your CPAP machine at a specific pressure setting (higher pressure requires more power consumption).  And, you'll have to figure out a way to turn off any buzzer or beeping on the standard UPS devices, so that you can continue to sleep through the night when the UPS kicks in during a power outage.

I'll let others recommend a specific product for you, if anyone has personal experience with the high-end devices.  I've not researched any of the higher-end UPS devices - especially those that would give you a minimum of 8-10 hours run-time for CPAP usage without doing damage to the UPS battery.  My personal solar-panel & battery setup initially cost perhaps around $300 total cost, and it will power my CPAP for about 3-4 nights without being recharged.


If you don't mind getting up during a power outage and plugging your CPAP into a battery-powered device, then one like the system I linked to above (here) is going to be the simplest and least costly method for you.

It's the hands-off, automatic switch-over systems that are going to be more complex and costly.

I'll let others chime in, as undoubtedly there's more qualified folks who can offer more info on this stuff.

[Crimson Nape]

I would recommend that you use a DC-DC 12/24 power supply for the A10.  Using a battery, like the Jackery Portable Power Station Explorer 1500, will be more efficient in power conversion.  Stepping up to 120 VAC then back down creates a major power loss.  Using my suggestion should result in extending your run time considerably.  You can leave this connected permanently.  When the power goes out, you won't know it.

- Red

Edit: I found this in the Jackery's Q&A:

Question:
How long will this power a cpap?

Answer:
Let's say that your CPAP; with humidifier OFF & using a special DC adapter; uses power at a rate of only 10 watts. The Explorer 1500 has a battery capacity of 1,535 Wh (watt hours). It's regulated 12V DC cigarette lighter outlet is likely around 90% efficient. See below for hypothetical run-time based on a 10 watt average draw.

Jackery Explorer 1500 ---- (1,535 Wh * .90 efficiency) / 10 watt device = 138 hours (17.3 full nights) of run-time (humidifier OFF & special DC adapter).

Your run-time may vary depending on exact machine wattage; your CPAP pressure; and your altitude.

[FaceInTheCrowd]

You could just run your cpap off a 12 volt battery that has a trickle charger hooked up to it. Use the 12V adapter mentioned above to connect to the battery.

A 90 amp hour battery in a case under the bed with a trickle charger and the 12 V adapter permanently wired to it. You’d never know the power went out because you’re always running off the battery.

[SuperSleeper]

Personally, I would not leave any large Lithium-ion battery system (like the Jackery) charging continuously, unattended via household current (especially if the power grid has fluctuations, or spikes).  If it overheats and catches fire while you're out of the house, your entire house could easily burn to the ground.  Lithium fires are notorious for being very hard to extinguish.

And, by the way, spraying a lithium fire with water has absolutely no effect.  You'll need a regular ABC fire extinguisher nearby.

Although lithium batteries store a lot more energy , they're an extreme fire hazard when left charging unattended... much more so than standard lead-acid deep cycle batteries.

[FaceInTheCrowd]

I think you’re right about the lithium batteries. I was thinking of a good old marine deep-cycle. And 90 amp-hours is overkill for sure. Save your back and get one that lasts for two nights. I’ve done four nights on my 90 amp-hour unit but it weighs 53 pounds!

[SuperSleeper]

I'm so paranoid about a fire that when I charge my cell phone (also Lithium-ion battery), it's always when I'm in the house and even then, I put it right underneath one of my smoke detectors so that the alarm goes off immediately with the smallest degree of smoke.  And I have a fire extinguisher nearby just in case.  And smoke is the first thing to occur with a Lithium battery fire.

Granted, Lithium-ion battery fires are somewhat rare, but they do occur.  And it's usually because of an issue during charging - either the charger goes bad or has an issue, or the grid-supplied electricity has abnormalities that cause a spike or surge to the charger.  And most of these lithium-ion batteries and chargers are made in various Asian nations (mostly China), where quality control may be an issue.   In the U.S., our electrical grid is increasingly having issues (we're not investing enough in electrical infrastructure).  So as time goes on, we're going to see a lot more instabilities in the grid which could easily cause an increase in lithium-ion battery-charging fires.

There's a lot more of these types of fires that you'd think.  Take a look at these Google News articles, done with the simple search term "lithium fire":

https://news.google.com/search?q=lithium+fire

[snorin2]

I am currently using an APC modified 120V sine wave UPS, with a internal sealed VRLA 9AHr battery, which will give me a few hours of AC upon a power outage, according to the Resmed "Batttery Guide".

And have been watching this issue for a while and waiting for the lithium batteries/mini-ups etc to come down a little in price and that seems to be happening.  But reading about the fire risks in this post---now, I am not so sure that is the way to go, at least for home use as opposed to travel/camping etc.

Also quality, high AHr, lead acid 120 V AC UPS's, especially pure sine wave ones, seem expensive.

Suppose you buy a quality 12 V lead acid, automatic trickle charger like a Battery Minder or Battery Tender that say charges at 3/4 amp,
hook it up to a moderately heavy deep cycle or sealed lead acid battery---say 20 AHr,
and hook up a DC to DC converter to run a "slimmed down" CPAP without heat,  say a Resmed 10 drawing  .4 to .7 amps.  A Resmed 11 would draw even less.  I guess you could leave it on continuously, all hooked up, even if unattended, without undue risk of fire--????.  

I'm a rookie here!  What happens in electrical terms?

So as I understand it, the battery charger puts out 3/4 of an amp at 14.5 volts when charging, the 12V battery's natural resting fully charged voltage is 12.75 V.  WHAT HAPPENS?  Because the electrons from the charger are at the higher voltage (14.5V), do they  just swish over the top of the battery as necessary to run the CPAP or do they somehow merge with the electrons in the battery and then a different set of electrons go to run the CPAP.  If the second scenario takes place, does it thereby act as a "recharge" and reduce the lifespan of the battery.

Also, I asked Jackery and Jackery specifically does not recommend continuously using a charger to create a DIY UPS, at least on their recent lithium model --but they wont say why.  I guess it's because of the fire risk.  I have never got a definitive answer from the lead acid people but I don't think they approve of this setup as DIY UPS.

And all the mobile phone people say "(try) not to use your phone when it is plugged in and charging" as it will reduce the lifespan of the battery.

I believe you can buy a 12 V UPS diverter board at Amazon--the board itself --you have to put it in box  and hook up  all the wires etc. which I don't really want to do unless there are advantages.  I guess you would be using the power directly from the battery charger to start with and then the power from the battery only when the power to the charger fails???  Is this a better way to go?