Does one learn not to open mouth with a Nasal mask?

[BobH56]

I have good success with a full face mask (F30), leaks avg below 10L and AHI of 0.5-1.0.  When I use an N30  nasal mask I get leaks of 18-25 due to my mouth opening.  If I mouth tape with the N30, leaks are 10L-15L and AHI is 1.5-2.0  or so.   While I get better results with the full face mask, I'd like to just use a nasal mask, especially with the new Airmini I just purchased as it does not support the F30 with Humidx. 

My question is, does one with repeated use eventually learn to keep their mouth closed??  If not I may just try the F20 for the Airmini.

Thanks

Bob H.

[Crimson Nape]

Some people are prone to mouth breathing no matter what.  Yet others seem to have a pressure limit before mouth breathing starts.  Ultimately, your problem is why they invented chin straps.   There are several designs that seem to be more affective than others in the market.  The two that come to mind are the Ruby chinstrap and the Knightsbridge Dual Band Chin Strap. Other brands seem to cause more problems that they solve. Some have their tension positioned where it pulls the jaw back into the throat area, which can cause additional OAs to occur. Before buying one, preform a careful analyzation of its design to see if it is acceptable to you. My drawer is full of ones that didn't work.

- Red

[BobH56]

Thank you for the reply. I actually did try a chin strap and should have mentioned that. BTW it didn't really work. 
I then moved on to mouth taping and it more or less works but I am not keen on it.  The F30 is simple and resolves the issues and is what I use
at home with the Airsense 11.  The F30 its compatible with the Airmini but with NO humidification.
Its finding compatible mask for my new Airmini is what I am trying to figure out.   Do I just go with the N30, use tape and hope at some point I can ditch the tape, or just go with an F20 as that is one of the Airmini compatible masks with humidification which is the way I am now leaning.

[Sleepster]

My question is, does one with repeated use eventually learn to keep their mouth closed?? 

Some people can, I never could. I do not recommend taping. I get better sleep with the full face mask as the mouth-leaking isn't there to keep waking me up.

[Liteheart1]

@BobH56 As you have already read above you will get divergent answers/experience. I have always used pillows or nasal mask. I am not a day time mouth breather I am night. If you search forum you will find several forum threads on mouth breathing "tongue trick" and I successfully used those exercises to seemingly eliminate virtually all mouth breathing. However more recently (probably due to some life stressors) mouth breathing returned. So now I am using mouth taping successfully, but will also explore full face mask even though my limited exp with FFM was a great deal of leaks.
edit to add link to "tongue trick" for mouth breathing http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php..._Breathing

[mesenteria]

I don't see why there would be a substantial leak when using tape unless:

a. The pressure is high and the mask isn't fitting properly; or

b. The tape, or its application, are wrong for the job.

I have had to tape since the second night on PAP.  I use the 3M NexCare 'water resistant' white tape that comes in a spool with the appropriate printing on it.  But, I have had to learn how to get it to work well.  First, the mouth must be clear of facial oils, schmutz, and of whiskers that act as stubble and keep the tape from adhering properly.  Secondly, the tape must extend beyond the 'corners' of the mouth by about 6-10 mm.  Thirdly, the tape's placement relative to the lips is probably important.  It is for me.  I find that, for my architecture, most of the tape should be over the lips and just under them.  That leaves a thin covering above the upper lips.

The tape adheres best when it is pressed firmly into place all over it.  These steps have meant no leakage that can be blamed on the tape or how I use it.

Whicher tape you use, clean mouth area, pressed firmly in place, extending over half a centimeter beyond either corner of the mouth...that really makes the 'cure' for leaking work for me.

I knew intuitively that using a chin strap would be a mistake because I tolerate the headgear well, right from the start, but having a second restraint over my chin was just too much.  

Also, I fall asleep on my side and tuck my wrists, hands curled down about as far as they'll go, up against either side of my chin, arms crossed.  This arrangement keeps me from chin-tucking.

[Liteheart1]

I second out of my experience virtually all of what @Mesenteria wrote above except for the arm position and fists on either side of chin (which I expect could be effective). I am also predominantly side sleeper and recently changed to buckwheat pillow that I took a lot of the material out of it so that it allows itself to be squished into any shape I want. I push the corner of the pillow that is below my chin into my neck area so that it offers a bit of resistance downward movement of chin. I use the same brand of tape and similar method for applying; use electric razor to shave mouth area before applying. I had previously used Somnifix but 3M tape is much cheaper and adhesive is much stronger. While I still have occasional large leaks I am farily confident that they are not from mouth but from slightly dislodging mask from movement against my pillow.

[BobH56]

Lots of good information.   I simply ordered an N30 for the Airmini for now as at least I know what an N30 feels like.
It works ok, and my leaks are largely my dislodging the mask I think.  I have mouth taped and it improved the leaks but I cut
a 1/2" or less slit in the tape just in case some maybe some leaking there.  I'd just prefer not to have to deal with tape.
If I struggle with the N30 I'll have to try the F20 as it is Airmini compatible.  But its always an expensive gamble trying a new mask (in Canada)
since if it doesn't fit/work, its still yours.

I appreciate all of the input.

regards