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+--- Thread: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA (/Thread-EVIDENCE-OF-AIRFIT-P10-VENT-OBSTRUCTION-CAUSING-HYPERCAPNIA)
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - mdmarmd - 05-26-2019
Thanks.
That makes 2!
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - Snoring Bear - 05-26-2019
(05-25-2019, 07:36 AM)Canberragirl Wrote: I think I was too late to edit my previous post, sorry. Just want to clarify that I am definitely experiencing the suffocating sensations described by others, as well as the non-detection of leak when mask is removed. And the suffocation episodes became noticeable after a period of use without more than a cursory clean, but which also happened to coincide with cooler weather.
And I've now looked at my vent. It's pretty dirty, but as we get fairly sudden and unpredictable changes in overnight temperature and humidity where I live, I find it's pretty hard to prevent condensation ever happening, and given that it seems you can sleep through a pretty bad rebreathing of CO2 episode, I still think that if I end up buying one of these masks I will be sticking pins through it to protect my remaining brain cells.
It's good to know about the issues that "can creep up" with the Airfit p10. It seems one of two things need to occur for the P10 to cause problems. One is when the cleaning schedule of Resmed is not adhered to; the second case is when there is "rainout" which can cause blocked vents.
I've been using the P10 for about 3 1/2 months without any problems at all. Luckily, I don't get any rainout in the area that I live in. In addition, I clean the headset and pillows at least two or three times a week using a soft toothbrush and blowing jet stream water through the vent holes. There's no question that this is not a mask to be carefree about the cleaning regimen required (daily). The health risk is much too great to be cleaning this mask when you think you might get around to it.
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - Canberragirl - 05-27-2019
Thanks Snoring Bear. That is useful to have handy.
From mdmarmd's post, it seems that even thorough cleaning according to the instructions you've attached may not be enough to remove embedded material from the fine mesh. And of course condensation (for those affected) would not be addressed by cleaning.
Anyway I am going to try to tackle my rainout issues next so I'll be doing my research elsewhere on the forum on how to minimise that problem -- thanks so much everyone, it is amazing to have this resource available.
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - Sheepish - 05-27-2019
(05-27-2019, 03:18 AM)Canberragirl Wrote: Anyway I am going to try to tackle my rainout issues next so I'll be doing my research elsewhere on the forum on how to minimise that problem -- thanks so much everyone, it is amazing to have this resource available.
One thing that helps with rainout, besides a heated hose, is a hose holder like this one:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Product-Review-North-American-Healthcare-JB5651-Cpap-Hose-Holder
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - sonicboom - 05-27-2019
(05-27-2019, 02:33 PM)Sheepish Wrote:(05-27-2019, 03:18 AM)Canberragirl Wrote: Anyway I am going to try to tackle my rainout issues next so I'll be doing my research elsewhere on the forum on how to minimise that problem -- thanks so much everyone, it is amazing to have this resource available.
One thing that helps with rainout, besides a heated hose, is a hose holder like this one:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Product-Review-North-American-Healthcare-JB5651-Cpap-Hose-Holder
I would also strongly recommend that the tube temp be set to Auto on your A10 machine.
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - Canberragirl - 05-28-2019
Cool, thanks Sheepish.
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - Dog Slobber - 05-28-2019
(05-27-2019, 02:33 PM)Sheepish Wrote:(05-27-2019, 03:18 AM)Canberragirl Wrote: Anyway I am going to try to tackle my rainout issues next so I'll be doing my research elsewhere on the forum on how to minimise that problem -- thanks so much everyone, it is amazing to have this resource available.
One thing that helps with rainout, besides a heated hose, is a hose holder like this one:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Product-Review-North-American-Healthcare-JB5651-Cpap-Hose-Holder
Hose management systems can help with rainout out, but they can also make the problem worse.
If the majority of the humid air condenses back into liquid before the peak of the hose, then the water runs back into the humidifier and all is good.
But, if the humid air condenses back into liquid after the peak, then the water will run down the hose into the mask. Should this happen, then this will make the alleged water in the p10 vent problem even worse.
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - Apnea Infant - 05-28-2019
Thanks for that informative post, mdmarmd.
I read your other post a bit of time ago and have to confess I found it too technical for me then. I managed to understand most of your thread today and was shocked to discover that the vents of one my 3 P10 'holders' were completely black!! I have changed it now for one which is least 'dirty' and have scrubbed the other 2 with a toothbrush. Whilst my cleaning regime is not daily like some members, I did not think it was dire either. But I now discover that perhaps I have been wrong. I have only experienced rain out once when it was a particularly cold night. Then I wiped my mask down and raised the temperature of the heated climate line tube and that seemed to solved the problem of the rain out at least.
Last summer I wondered if my headaches which had returned after a year of good CPAP results might have been due to re-breathing CO2. My AHI after the change from the FFM at the beginning of my CPAP use to resmed P10 has been regularly below 1. I also had noticeably more energy and no more headaches on awakening in the first year.
So I was most perplexed to wake up to headaches again after that. A member informed his headaches disappeared with the use of the Brevida mask but I found that mask did not suit me at all and continued with the P10.
Analysing my historical data, I realise that leaks were negligible in my first year of P10 use. However leaks have climbed and according to OSCAR, for last year there was a 95% leak rate of about 30% of the time of which 11.8% was over the threshold of 24litres per minute. Whatever that means!! The bar charts are more graphic and suffice to note that the recent year is not as good as the first.
Also I have not been feeling as good with my nights sleep more recently, unlike my first year of CPAP use.
I am going to monitor my CPAP data more intensely again but wonder how I can check about re-breathing CO2? Would an oximeter help with that. I would not know how to interpret the results.
Is that any way we can interpret from OSCAR data whether rebreathing CO2 has happened?
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - mdmarmd - 05-28-2019
Apnea Infant wrote,
I am going to monitor my CPAP data more intensely again but wonder how I can check about re-breathing CO2? Would an oximeter help with that. I would not know how to interpret the results.
Personally, I don't think you really need to bother trying to measure CO2. It's harder than using an oximeter because you need to get a infra red CO2 sensor and set up a system that can draw in the air and measure the CO2. But you can't just use the air outright because the IR sensor detects the CO2 because the molecule absorbs some of the infra red radiation and reduces the voltage that the sensor picks up thereby translating the reduced voltage into the CO2 value. But water vapor will damage the mirror that is reflecting the infra red light and make the sensor lose accuracy. So you have to put a Nafion drying tube in the circuit to desicate the air before it goes to the sensor.
Anyway, way more than you needed to know.
An easier approach is to simply detect whether air is venting from the vents if you wake up feeling short of breath, unwell or headachy. As I mentioned earlier, if you lick the back of your hand and put it up close to the vents you either can or can't detect air flow. (The back of your hand is more sensitive than your palmer side, and the moisture increases your sensitivity to air flow as it will feel cooler as the moisture evaporates.)
In the earlier threads, people kept disputing whether the vents obstructed using complex extrapolations and sleepy head graphs, etc. But the bottom line, as Hulk and others have pointed out--If there's no air coming out of those vents...there's no air. And if they are blocked, I think it's guaranteed that the CO2 is elevated and you are rebreathing it.
If you click on the video link to the "opening snaps" you will be able to even hear the evidence that, with rain out, you can inhale and open the vents momentarily, but you cannot open them on expiration, except with exceptional effort, because the surface tension is so hard to over come.
RE: EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA - spirilis - 05-29-2019
Man this thread scared me as I have noticed lately awakening more groggy than my 1st week of therapy (in week 5 right now) and I've cleaned the mask a couple times.
For good measure I soaked the mask in hot water for a few minutes and blew it out with compressed air (seemed to flow OK). But then I figured out how to reach the clinician menu on the Airsense 10 and found EPR set to Full-Time, 2cmH2O, and switched it to Ramp-Only. Woke up this morning a bit sharper than usual.