[Treatment] ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - Printable Version +- Apnea Board Forum - CPAP | Sleep Apnea (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums) +-- Forum: Public Area (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Public-Area) +--- Forum: Main Apnea Board Forum (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Main-Apnea-Board-Forum) +--- Thread: [Treatment] ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea (/Thread-Treatment-ASV-settings-for-treatment-of-complex-sleep-apnea) |
RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - Geer1 - 12-30-2019 If you look closely you can see how the ASV works to blow the flow limitations apart. Specifically look at your 00:05 example. One flow limited breath then PS of 6-7 brings next breath back in line, then a few breaths later one smaller breath so it bumps PS up to 4 ish, next breath still smaller so PS up to 6ish and back to normal breathing again. You can see similar work being done in your other examples. With APAP or bilevel the machine doesn't react so you often have numerous repeated bad breaths and my understanding is that it is the buildup/extended time of flow limitations that is the main issue that ends up causing arousal (by increasing CO2 levels). The ASV seems more than competent to make the corrections early enough that this likely is not a problem (or at least a less severe problem then with APAP or bilevel). Pretty darn cool technology, I didn't realize that these machines were that fast to react. RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - JoeyWallaby - 12-31-2019 Yea, it’s good but a lot of the breathes have a flat inspiratory curve, I think the machine sees the tidal volume is good so it doesn’t care. RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - Sleeprider - 12-31-2019 It is common to see a flat inspiratory curve on all machines that backup a patient's breathing. While pressure support can cause the minute vent or tidal volume target to be met, the lack of inspiratory effort flattens out the curve. This is what a ventilation supported breath looks like, and without the support it might be apnea or hypopnea. I have said on a number of occasions, we can generally ignore some flow limitation with ASV and ST type machines because it doesn't always arise from airway restriction, rather lack of spontaneous effort. RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - JoeyWallaby - 12-31-2019 Ok last night, first part of night is Min EPAP 7.2, Min PS 4.2. Second part is Min EPAP 7.2, PS 5.4. Woke up from first part because people were playing music (new years), humidification was too high and mask was leaking. Turned down humidification for second part. Overview First part - event First part - waveforms First part - end of night RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - JoeyWallaby - 12-31-2019 Second part - waveforms Second part - end of night RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - JoeyWallaby - 12-31-2019 It's interesting that this night, the PS increased so much, with the best waveforms being when PS was approx 9/10. Aerophagia is gradually improving. RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - SarcasticDave94 - 12-31-2019 I don't know if you're a side or back sleeper, but for me, when new to the ASV I began left side sleeping. It helped me with aerophagia and GERD. Best wishes to your success. RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - JoeyWallaby - 12-31-2019 Thanks Dave, I've always fell asleep on my side but roll onto back when asleep sometimes. I'm hoping the aerophagia will gradually go away by itself. I've tried to set the Min EPAP to the point where my airway, consciously fully relaxing it, feels supported on exhale (and vice versa, Min PS so that airway feels supported on inhale). I found this quote from B. Tucker Woodson in the book "Sleep Apnea and Snoring" related to this... Quote:Airway collapse during sleep is both dynamic and passive. Dynamic collapse occurs during inspiration. Passive collapse occurs during expiration. Both are the result of a combination of applied forces that collapse and dilate the airway. In a structurally small airway during sleep, when dilating forces that stabilize the airway are greater than the collapsing forces, the airway is obstructed. Also, this is apparently how ResMed ASVs determine respiratory cycle phase https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4629962/ And more info If passive airway collapse on exhale is causing some of the inspiratory flow limitation, but not enough to cause apneas/hypopneas, the machine isn't going to increase EPAP but instead the PS (since it can't tell of course). Maybe I should try a higher Min EPAP and see if the required PS to achieve a good waveform is decreased? RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - JoeyWallaby - 01-01-2020 More on inspiratory vs expiratory collapse/narrowing Quote:Upper airway obstruction during sleep is characteristically attributed to inspiratory narrowing owing to a collapsing subatmospheric pressure against a hypotonic pharyngeal airway. However, several lines of evidence implicate expiratory narrowing as a possible mechanism of the initial narrowing. First, ventilatory motor output is an important determinant of upper airway patency. Oscillation of ventilatory motor output, during the characteristic periodic breathing of OSA, is associated with pharyngeal narrowing or obstruction at the nadir of the motor output, especially in individuals with a highly collapsible airway. Second, an obstructive apnea is often preceded by expiratory narrowing of the upper airway as evidenced by increased expiratory resistance or progressive expiratory narrowing, detected by fiberoptic imaging. Finally, although upper airway narrowing or occlusion occurs during a spontaneous or induced hypocapnic central apnea or induced hypocapnic hypopnea, pharyngeal narrowing during central hypopnea occurs during the expiratory phase only and is associated with increased expiratory upper airway compliance. Therefore upper airway obstruction may occur in either inspiration or expiration. Individuals with a high surrounding tissue pressure may be particularly susceptible to expiratory pharyngeal narrowing during such low ventilatory motor output and driving pressure. From chapter "Anatomy and Physiology of Upper Airway Obstruction", in "Principles and Practice of Sleep Medicine 4th edition". RE: ASV settings for treatment of complex sleep apnea - jaswilliams - 01-01-2020 Joey, no comment only your data for no but now your using an ASV can you replace the pressure graph with the mask pressure graph this will give us a better understanding on what the ASV is doing on a breath by breath basis |