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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Printable Version

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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - btreger - 06-19-2021

I think a little humor feels good right now. 

Everything else is just getting a little too scary, especially after the past 12 months.

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Ratchick - 06-19-2021

(06-19-2021, 01:52 PM)hegel Wrote: I find it hard to imagine that PR would deliberately introduce a known carcinogen that would poison its customers at large when other materials are readily available. Surely they performed tests that passed muster with the FDA (or whomever.)

Agreed - a lot of things are listed as possible carcinogens despite having never been demonstrated to prove cancer in humans (or sometimes, even in any animals). The thing is, I'm sure nobody considered that people would decide that using something as reactive as ozone to clean the system would be a routine thing - and of course, they're unlikely to have tested that possibility in the lab or as part of the FDA licensing etc. I'm waiting to see exactly WHAT "gas" they're saying is released, and in what quantities (because the dose makes the poison) but there's a reason they even mentioned it, and that makes me suspect there's a good reason for it. But it's only a suspicion. and they could just be covering their asses by saying "we told you to stop, you didn't, not our fault".

Honestly, if it's demonstrated adequately that ozone "cleaners" have significantly exacerbated this issue, I'm wanting to see how THAT plays out. Ozone itself causes lung damage and is also carcinogenic, and as well as potentially damaging the machines, they could easily expose a person to harmful levels of ozone, especially if the machine wasn't run properly or for long enough after using something like SoClean on it. So I find it kind of ironic that people are focusing in just on this after having used an ozone-producing system unnecessarily on machines even after the FDA AND the manufacturers said that doing so invalidated the warranty and could cause harm to the user.

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - hegel - 06-19-2021

I also wonder if PR is starting a little finger pointing in terms of ozone cleaners. the thing is, those things have been around for decades...or nearly. How could they NOT have performed tests? OR, this whole recall may be the result of testing ozone on the machines. We'll know soon enough!

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Ratchick - 06-19-2021

Yeah, we will - though to be fair, both Philips and Resmed have said not to use ozone cleaners with their machines for a while. I know for sure that Resmed reported that doing so voids the warranty, even doing it just once. But I don't know when that happened. I'm also not sure when ozone cleaners specifically for xPAP came onto the market, either, being a newbie, but I do know that as soon as I started researching, I quickly found plenty of stuff saying that using them could damage the machines as well as harm health. So I do think that those manufacturers bear some of the blame for selling an unsafe product, but that doesn't absolve this potential ongoing issue. It's certainly not new information that ozone can damage various materials and this is why these things are usually tested ahead of time. It's going to be a legal mess, that's for sure.

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - btreger - 06-19-2021

QUOTE:

ResMed- Official Information on Ozone Cleaners

According to ResMed, ozone devices cause damage to some of their Air10 CPAP units, and this damage may lead to increased motor noise. However, they have not identified any patient safety risks that can arise because of this problem. Furthermore, starting with February 1, 2020, damage to ResMed devices and components caused by direct exposure to Ozone will be excluded from their device limited warranty.

This refers to the SoClean 2 product.

Other problems found:

Customers noted that most of the soft silicone seals were deteriorated and of a brownish color, instead of being intact and of a clear color. For example, the dry box seals found between the water tank and the unit that pumps the air, or the silicone seal found between the lid and the water tank have completely deteriorated. 

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - WakeUpTime - 06-19-2021

For at least 1 1/2 years (and likely much earlier, well before their cautionary statement in respect to ozone cleaning) respirator manufacturers knew about the rapid deterioration internally, brought on by the use of ozone cleaners such as SoClean. They seemed to merely look at it from a warranty point of view. They probably didn't view regular deterioration as a long-term problem as they expected people to take their recommendation and purchase a new machine every 5 years.

For Philips, the problem was made much worse through its use of a cancer-causing ingredient in its foam as well as the placement of its foam in the machines and the nearby circulating air. Even without ozone cleaning, normal aging and deterioration of the foam would be ingested by users. It may be that SoClean (and related products) significantly advance the deterioration of softer materials (foam, silicone, etc.) by a factor of 10-20X, causing even a one year-old DreamStation 1 to deteriorate internally to the same degree as a 10-20 year-old machine.

For Philips, this may have been a strong motivating factor in Philips' development and release of its redesigned DreamStation 2 - not impacted by the recall.


For SoClean, it's going to be a rollercoaster year for them. They had recently won a large settlement against sellers of fake or clone products. This Philips incident has shed new light on the advanced deteriorating effects that are caused by ozone cleaners, when used inside respiratory machines.

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - hegel - 06-19-2021

(06-19-2021, 04:22 PM)WakeUpTime Wrote:   It may be that SoClean (and related products) significantly advance the deterioration of softer materials (foam, silicone, etc.) by a factor of 10-20X, causing even a one year-old DreamStation 1 to deteriorate internally to the same degree as a 10-20 year-old machine.
I wonder where the figures here come from...?

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - kappa - 06-19-2021

(06-19-2021, 11:54 AM)cathyf Wrote:
(06-19-2021, 11:24 AM)racprops Wrote: So as far as I can see not having one in my hands there is NO where for the air to go out or in BUT though the foam.

And IF this is correct then I have to think that Resmed calibrated their system with this form as part of those calculations with whatever restrictions or drag this foam may have, and thus it can be part of the machine sensor system and removing it can make this finely tune systems malfunction.
I live in the corn belt, and at various times of the year we have high levels of pollen, and/or lots of dust in the air from plowing or harvesting, etc. If this is functioning as a permanent filter then some people are going to have it clogged with crud much faster than others.

I doubt that calibration is an issue here - the filter is on the intake side of the motor, as is the external, user replaceable filter. Flow and pressure sensors are on the outlet side of the motor and these determine treatment behavior. One would expect the airflow resistance of the external filter to change over time as it accumulates dust, etc or is replaced, so the machine would deal with this already.

I would not expect the permanent filter to accumulate much stuff at all if the user replaceable filter is serviced correctly. It's likely there just to provide an additional layer of protection for the motor.

The Respironics foam does not act as a filter at all. However the foam in our old System One had a heap of dust sitting on it, particularly in the eddy sections outside the flow path. The external filter did fall out a few times which likely made this worse than it should be.

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - SuperSleeper - 06-19-2021

(06-19-2021, 01:15 PM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote: What about the cleaning systems that recommend use of dihydrogenmonoxide.  This chemical has killed millions over the years.  It is believed, in some circles, that dihydrogenmonoxide is responsible for the near extinction of the human species at one point ...


Before we get too many members asking about this dangerous-sounding chemical compound, I assure everyone that dihydrogenmonoxide is perfectly safe for use in cleaning cpap tubing and masks.

Dihydrogenmonoxide is also known as H2O -- in other words - WATER.

He was making a joke.  Smile

And yeah, we have some members who didn't realize that.   Happy Eyes

RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - racprops - 06-19-2021

btreger Wrote: "... you receive a confirmation number via email. that was 3 weeks ago and no further follow-up has been received."

 http://www.philips.com/src-update


Try it again. I checked three machines and was told right then and there is it was on the recall list or not, AND the two that were were given confirmation number right then.

Rich