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+--- Thread: [News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS (/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS)
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - JJJ - 12-24-2022
(12-23-2022, 07:14 PM)StratCat48 Wrote: While I totally get where you're coming from (P*ssed at Philips) and I was going to keep my recalled DS1 originally as well, there are folks out there that can not afford to buy a replacement CPAP out of pocket. Holding onto one that serves no purpose to you other than take up closet space only lengthens the time for someone to receive their replacement and continue therapy. I as well was pretty PO'd at Philips, but after giving it thought, I didn't want to screw someone else waiting by no fault of theirs that could use a machine and I did finally ship the DS1 back.
Somewhere many months ago in this board or the other CPAP board, someone posted about Philips could possibly bill for unreturned machines and this was kinda/sorta a statement buried in the registration process that was agreed to for the replacement. I went back in what I had copied/downloaded during registration and could find nothing. If indeed there was something stating such, Philips could possibly have a leg to stand on if they wanted to and bill for an unreturned machine. Not sure how far it would get if they tried.
Even if Philips had some legal weasel words in their registration documents that requires me to return the old machine, they can't sue me for damages because there is no dollar amount that I agreed to pay. Their only recourse would be a suit for specific performance to force me to send it back. And there is no attorney fee clause, so they would have to pay the legal expenses, even if they won. Can you see them spending several thousand dollars to recover a machine that still needs hundreds of dollars of parts and labor to refurbish? And they can't do anything to my credit rating because they don't have my social. They'll send me an e-mail because that is automated and costs them nothing, but otherwise they won't touch me. I hope they all die soon so they can get the reward they deserve in hell. And while I eagerly await news of their departure for the next life, I sit with my old machine in the closet in case I need a backup after their refurbished machine blows up. Oh, wait ... I shouldn't have said that out loud.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - ST Dog - 12-25-2022
(12-23-2022, 07:19 PM)StratCat48 Wrote: "SuperSleeper....
Basically, returning the machine will reduce THEIR remediation costs, plus it will cause yet another patient to get a refurbished DS1 instead of a brand new DS2. Returning the machine has no benefit to ANY patient. All the benefit goes to Philips."
JJJ's machine is a BiPAP, thus can not get replaced with a DS2. It would only speed up the process for someone to get a DS1 BiPAP even if refurbished.
This.
Especially for the BiPAP and advanced machines.
So many "I got mine screw everyone else" comments, especially in the FB groups.
I have a 6+ yr old machine. I don't expect a new machine to replace it.
With many warranty replacement devices I've never received new for my used items. After you use it it's used, whether it was 4 years or 4 days, it's used.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - SuperSleeper - 12-25-2022
(12-25-2022, 07:30 AM)ST Dog Wrote: So many "I got mine screw everyone else" comments, especially in the FB groups.
Nothing personal, but are you okay with a huge multi-national corporation making you feel like you're personally responsible for depriving BiPAP users from getting replacement machines if you don't return your machine? When it was THEIR OWN POLICY to knowing allow the cancer-causing foam to be in these machines in the first place, and it was THEIR COMPANY that attempted to sweep this whole issue under the rug in order to maximize profits-- at the expense of patient health? And do you accept Philips' hypocritical projected guilt upon you so much so that you're fully willing to COMPLY with a company that has effectively committed fraud and reckless endangerment?
Philips needs to quit projecting guilt upon patients for not returning the machines and simply MAKE THINGS RIGHT... (and get this)-- AT THEIR COST and via THEIR EFFORTS alone.
And besides all that, after this mess, few people are going to TRUST Philips in this remediation process, especially if we have no clue how far or to what degree their "refurbishment process" goes to protect patients who receive those returned & refurbished machines.
It's not "I got mine and screw everyone else". But rather, even if I get mine, I don't trust Philips to properly rid my returned machine of all cancer-causing substances. By not returning my machine, it's going to FORCE Philips to produce more NEW machines in this process, thus other patients are more likely to get a NEW machine that doesn't have residue of the old foam still in it. Or BETTER YET, if they don't have new BiPAPs developed, offer cash payments to BiPAP users so they can go out and purchase a new machine from another manufacturer.
Personally, even IF I ever get a replacement machine from Philips, I SURE AS HECK am NOT going to use it, unless I'm in an extremely dire situation (like I have no alternative machines left or no money for a NON-Philips machine). I might donate it to someone who's in dire straights, but I'll first let them know the history of all this, and how I still don't trust the company, and they should only use a Philips machine if there's absolutely NO alternative for them, making it known that they are taking a risk with such a machine.
Do I feel guilt for not returning my machine? Heck no... I'm helping to protect OTHERS from being victimized by Philips YET AGAIN (a corporation that's proven they care more about profits than the health of human beings).
Some of us don't easily fall for Philips' hypocritical guilt-projection.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - btreger - 12-26-2022
(12-25-2022, 11:20 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote: Do I feel guilt for not returning my machine? Heck no... I'm helping to protect OTHERS from being victimized by Philips YET AGAIN (a corporation that's proven they care more about profits than the health of human beings).
Some of us don't easily fall for Philips' hypocritical guilt-projection.
SuperSleepr has been posting on this matter since June 14, 2021. That is well over a year and a half. That period of time has provided him with a vast amount of information he has absorbed and helped to form his sincere and accurate opinion of Philips. I personally agree with his stated position.
Just last week I posted two articles that help explain in just a short time period some of Philips's conduct:
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
Philips RS has submitted to the FDA a proposal for rework and remediation
of Trilogy Devices, as defined below, under which Trilogy Device users will have the PE-PUR
foam, and if necessary the airpath components, of the Trilogy Devices, removed and replaced, and
the user’s same Trilogy Device will then be returned to the user, and the FDA has allowed rework
and remediation activities to proceed
Several days later I posted this:
FDA
Certain Reworked Philips Respironics Trilogy 100/200 Ventilators Recalled Due to Potential for Silicone Foam Adhesion Failure and Residual PE‐PUR Foam Debris: FDA Safety Communication
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - SuperSleeper - 12-26-2022
... and besides all of the above, remember that we're talking about the same company that decided that YOU, as the patient, don't even have the right to see your own CPAP data. They encrypted the new DreamStation 2 machines so that only their "pre-approved partners and stakeholders" can view YOUR data:
http://www.apneaboard.com/alert
Philips literally locked YOU out of your own private CPAP data, then MONETIZED that stolen data without your permission to increase their profits. Read first few posts in the above link.
Still sound like they have the patients' best interest at heart? Go ahead and cooperate with them if you like, but I'm not going to reward them for their bad behavior by cooperating in any way. At least not until they start substantially changing their ways.
Just my opinion, of course.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - btreger - 12-26-2022
PHILIPS
They apparently had another recalled product that went under the radar. Not related to CPAP, but to the lack of any form of quality controls and concern for its customers.
Philips reminds Infa-Therm Transport Mattress customers in the US and Canada to cease use and destroy existing inventory as instructed by the November 26, 2021 recall notification
Philips is providing an important reminder to customers in the US and Canada about November 26, 2021, Philips Infa-Therm Transport Mattress recall notification for this product. This recall notification affects units in the US and Canada shipped between April 2019 and November 2021.
As part of this action, Philips contacted affected customers and distributors and instructed them to cease the use of and destroy affected products.
To help ensure ongoing customer awareness of this recall notification, Philips is posting this online notice.
Philips reminds Infa-Therm Transport Mattress customers in the US and Canada to cease use and destroy existing inventory as instructed by the November 26, 2021 recall notification - News | Philips
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - ST Dog - 12-27-2022
I have no love for the Respironics division, yet I never had any problems with my PRS1 60 and it still works perfectly. No issues with foam degradation. The issue was blown way out of proportion, the way recalls always are.
You say they have to change their ways, but I don't think there is ANYTHING they could do to change your mind. You are convinced the people at Philips want to kill people.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - SuperSleeper - 12-27-2022
(12-27-2022, 06:11 AM)ST Dog Wrote: You say they have to change their ways, but I don't think there is ANYTHING they could do to change your mind. You are convinced the people at Philips want to kill people.
No, we're saying that they have very little concern for the health of patients when it comes in conflict with making corporate profits. None of the Philips officers would ever state "Yep, let's do all we can to kill people"; I doubt they even think such a thing, either.
Rather, when faced with a CHOICE of whether to make more money and deliver a product with cancer-causing foam vs. making less money and delivering a safe product... THEY chose (knowingly) to make more money and deliver a product with cancer-causing foam in it. It's been proven that Philips KNEW about this issue for years and didn't do anything about it, until they were forced to address the issue.
They made the exact same type of corporate decision when they decided to lock patients out of their own CPAP data (via encryption) in order to steal and monetize patient data. [see here]
As far as changing my mind - it would go a long way towards resolving the issue if they would simply issue a check to each patient for the cost of a replacement machine of their choice. That could have been done a year ago or so, rather than forcing patients to wait, wait, and wait some more for Philips to send them a replacement machine.
But I'm not kidding myself either... it's the stockholders who they want to please, not patients. And stockholders really don't care about your health-- rather, they care about increasing their own dividends and capital gains. Nothing inherently wrong with that - it's good old fashion capitalism and a fact of life.
But as companies get larger and larger, there seems to be less and less concern for the actual health of the end-user of their products. Their company focus turns away from satisfying customers (end-users, actually) and turns more towards satisfying stockholders. This is why patients (end-users) must hold the manufacturer's feet to the fire - no one else is looking out for us. This is what Apnea Board has been about from the very beginning-- PATIENT empowerment over what we've called the "Medical Mafia".
To prevent that type of corporate greed from infecting a company, officers and board members must take firm steps and guide the corporate culture and values so that they're not making money at the expense of harming people. That can be done-- and a company can remain wildly profitable with such values. There's plenty of examples of where companies operate like that.
But, it's "easier" to do away with "values" and concentrate primarily on the corporate bottom line and avoid thinking about how it might negatively affect individual patients. It seems the larger the corporation becomes, the easier it is for officers in that company to become detached from the concerns of "regular people". It's basically the "love of money" which corrupts these people. No, money is not bad, and neither is making money bad-- but the love of money will definitely corrupt anyone eventually.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - TimaaaaaaaahRocks - 12-27-2022
(12-27-2022, 06:11 AM)ST Dog Wrote: You are convinced the people at Philips want to kill people.
Nope. If they tried to sell a machine meant to actually kill people they'd probably screw that up.
The problems at PR have always been rooted in the messed up culture post Jerry McGinnis. Bean counters and wanna-bee MBAs determine what is acceptable, FDA be damned. When that doesn't work, i.e. busted selling illegally labelled products that kill people, they toss a few schmucks under the bus. The schmucks should have blown the whistle much sooner. Many of the same schmucks chose to leave quietly between 2015 and 2020.
So the FDA and DoJ is going to settle on terms for PR to stay in the PAP biz? Big whoop, add a 3rd party to ENSURE that they obey the laws they broke for decades. in the end its just and added expense that will be passed onto insurance companies and tax payers. The FDA is a joke.
PHILIPS CPAP LAWSUIT UPDATES - WakeUpTime - 12-27-2022
Latest Philips CPAP Lawsuit Updates (Legal Facts & Legal Opinions):
Quote:December 21, 2022 – CPAP Brain Cancer Lawsuit Filed [Philips + SoClean]
Now that the claim registration process with Philips is over, we are going to see more CPAP injury lawsuits get filed in the MDL. Last week, we saw the first CPAP brain cancer case get filed. The 60-page Complaint was filed by Plaintiff Salvatore DiGrazia. DiGrazia alleges that he used one of the recalled Philips CPAP machines and cleaned it with the SoClean ozone device for many years and was later diagnosed with brain cancer. The Complaint names both Philips and SoClean as defendants. This is the first known lawsuit asserting that toxic foam particles in a recalled CPAP device caused brain cancer.
December 15, 2022 – Consumer Class Action Lawsuit
Philips is asking the court to dismiss the consumer class action case pending for economic damages related to recalled CPAP devices. Philips claims that the named plaintiffs (and the class they are seeking to represent) have no standing to sue because they cannot show that they were harmed by the recall. The reason Philips claims there was no harm is that it offered to repair or replace recalled machines for free. In response, the plaintiffs assert that they would never have bought the CPAP devices in the first place had they known about the risk.
November 24, 2022 – Updated CPAP Death Numbers
In a new report on Tuesday, the FDA reports that it has received more than 90,000 Medical Device Reports (MDRs). There were 260 reports of death from Philips ventilators, BiPAP, and CPAP machines.
November 23, 2022 – Is Philips CPAP Settlement with Justice Department Imminent?
The DOJ is close to finalizing a consent decree with Philips that will force the company to accept blame for the CPAP recall and take steps to avoid future problems. The fact that a consent decree is being negotiated is a clear sign of just how bad things have gotten for Philips in the wake of the CPAP recall. The recall has already cost Philips a CEO and billions in valuation, not to mention the growing tide of CPAP recall injury lawsuits.
How does this impact the CPAP cancer and respiratory injury lawsuits? It takes the steam off the “we did nothing wrong” pushback when you already publically admit that you did something very wrong. Yes, Philips’ lawyers will continue to fight and argue that the CPAP did not cause specific types of injuries. But if this Justice Department settlement happens, it will take some of the wind out of their sails of these defenses in the CPAP class action lawsuit.
The level of risk of additional ill health varies considerably with the existing health conditions of users, regions, equipment, settings, accessory equipment, cleaning style, environment (temperature & humidity), etc. However, there indeed was additional risk (from small to very large, depending on the above factors). Philips should not be able to succesfully argue that, within a tightly controlled laboratory setting, using its predetermined foam that was provided, that minimal harmful health consequences would definitely result, as a result of using its proven-harmful carcenogenic foam.
Many CPAP patients have additional compromised health conditions where the faulty Philips CPAP foam may have added additional negative consequences to their existing conditions. The patients should not have suffered additional negative effects as a result of choosing the Philips brand. Even those without existing compromised health conditions, other than having sleep apnea, Philips in its privately selected lab conditions cannot predict the LONG-TERM health consequences of using its faulty foam.
Additionally, there's the deliberate corporate neglegence conducted by Philips over the years regarding its minimizing of alerts from the foam supplier and affected patients. That penalty award should in some way be redistributed to Philips owners since they are the ones who sufferred as a result.
Additionally, at a minimum, there are additional expenses incurred by many Philips Recalled device owners who were alerted by Philips, doctors, etc., to stop using their faulty products, to seek replacement products, etc. At the worst possible time, given supply challenges, many faulty Philips device customers paid significant amounts to immediately obtain replacement life-sustaining medical products. CPAP devices, for many, are indeed life-sustaining or life-functioning (able to work, etc.).
Philips, not surprisingly, is attempting to escape from all financial consequences relating to its insistence on continuing to use a known faulty carcenogenic foam - especially when used with SoClean or within other conditions and environments.