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+--- Thread: Which is better and is there a resale market? (/Thread-Which-is-better-and-is-there-a-resale-market)
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - MoveUp - 02-17-2022
So is the minimum pressure setting the reason it is taking me hours and hours to fall asleep? My mind thinks about anything and everything once my head hits the pillow. I even shake sometimes my anxiety is so bad. I take 7 different kinds of CBD oil throughout the day just to not be a nervous wreck. 5 years ago I started taking Xanax and ambien. Those really f*cked me up. My neurologist then switched me to alprazolem and some other drug for vertigo, which messed me up even more. I was sleeping 23 hours/day and couldn't get out of bed, and when I did I was so dizzy I couldn't stand. It took me a full year to get over this. The last 3 months of that year getting over it was in South America (my wife is from South America). My wife's Yoga instructor recommended I go see a dr friend of hers who was an MD in South America but also practiced Eastern therapies. Suffice it to say, she said my pancreas was full of meds, told me to stop ALL my meds and then I would go see her 3 days a week for 2months and she injected some sort of liquid into all of my organs, skull, etc. People ask me what it was. I have no idea. It was just some black liquid that she says was invented in Germany. I immediately began to do better within in days. What is "better?" Being able to be awake for 2, 3, 4 hours a day. It was a slow road to recovery but I went from not being able to get out of bed, sleeping 23 hours/day, and not being able to sit at a computer for more than 30 seconds without vomiting to... now I average about 10 hours/night, I have a bipap machine, completely off the Xanax, Ambien, Aproxalem, etc and I can function 10 hours/day on a computer. I'm much slower than I used to be and I'll never get back to the way I was before, but at least I can function. Ah... but CBD oil is what keeps me from falling apart. I take 7 different types of CBD daily, 4 different CBD's before I hit the sack.... and my mind still races at 100 mph when I go to bed. I "know" the Bipap machine helps me sleep better, but I still can't figure out how to get to sleep faster. I feel like I fell asleep faster with the Phillips machine. Lastly, after I got the Resmed machine and used it for a few weeks, I then took it to my doctor and he said the settings were all wrong. Honestly, it felt like the machine was making me breathe to slow. He said both the settings and the ramp time were off. Supposedly he fixed them. I do feel like I can breathe at my speed a little better once I get in bed, but my mind still races and it takes hours to fall asleep. I "LOVE" the way I feel when I wake up in the morning. Ie. When my eyes open and I'm iin bed with my Bipap machine still on, etc I feel completely relaxed, mind isn't wandering etc. I'd love to be able to feel like that when I go to bed. By the way, the CBD oil I take doesn't have any THC in it. Just all the different Dr. Formulated liquids, gels, and a few others I get from The Vitamin Shoppe. I spend about $400/month on CBD oil... sucks, but it's what allows me to function all day (I think).
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - Sleeprider - 02-17-2022
I think we can set the EPAP min pressure to 7.0 and PS to 3.0 and see if that helps you to relax. The high pressure and higher pressure support may be too stimulating for you to sleep well. With the lower pressure, we can analyze if other problems arise that justify the higher pressure or pressure support, but meanwhile, this gives us a data-point to see if we can improve your sleep with simple setting changes.
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - MoveUp - 02-19-2022
(02-17-2022, 05:55 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: I think we can set the EPAP min pressure to 7.0 and PS to 3.0 and see if that helps you to relax. The high pressure and higher pressure support may be too stimulating for you to sleep well. With the lower pressure, we can analyze if other problems arise that justify the higher pressure or pressure support, but meanwhile, this gives us a data-point to see if we can improve your sleep with simple setting changes.
Just now changed my settings. Will see how it goes tonight.
thanks!
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - MoveUp - 02-20-2022
So Friday night I changed my EPAP min from 10 to 7, as you recommended and the pressure from 4 to 3. I have attached the Oscar result from Friday night. It appears AHI was .91. However, I note that I went to bed around midnight and did not sleep at all. I finally got out of bed around 11am or noon, but I looked at my clock all night. Since changing to the Resmed machine, it usually takes me about 4 hours to fall asleep. With these changes, I couldn't fall asleep. I looked at my clock at 1am, 2am, 3am.... 8am, 9am, 10am, etc.
So what did it actually feel like? It felt like there was NO pressure. I was much more calm and relaxed then usual, so I assume that is a positive, I simply could not fall asleep? I wonder if I've gotten so used to the pressure that I need it to fall asleep? Also, I did note that my breathing was very deep. Almost like when you go to the dr and they say, "take a deep breath and then let it out." That's how it felt like my breathing was all night long.
What next? For Saturday night, I decided I would change the settings to half way in between. Since there are no ".5s" I changed the settings to EPAP min to 8.6 which is right over the halfway mark of what I usually have it at and what you recommended... Ie. EPAP 10 in the past, you had me change it to 7 for Friday night so now for Saturday I decided to try 8.6. As for Pressure, you had me change the 4 to 3, which I did for Friday. For Saturday night, I changed it to 3.6 (a little over halfway in between).
Saturday results... AHI was .25, I fell asleep in less than an hour and slept like a baby. I did wake up twice, but went right back to sleep afterward. Perhaps I was so tired from no sleep Friday night that I fell asleep much faster on Saturday night? Or perhaps it's the change in settings? How did I feel? Again, I felt much more relaxed Saturday night. I did feel the pressure, which I think I actually like. Didn't recognize the real deep breathing that I experienced Friday night.
Overall, with the changes I do feel much more relaxed when I sleep. Is that a good thing? Does that mean I've been beating myself up the last four years with this pressure so high?
Obviously, I am going to try the pressure tonight (Sunday) as the same as I put them at for Saturday... EPAP min at 8.6 and Pressure at 3.6, unless you recommend otherwise.
Suggestions, thoughts?
Thanks! I really do appreciate all the input. This forum is wonderful.
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - Sleeprider - 02-20-2022
At some point you will need to sleep. Your description of the "feel" of the revised settings is encouraging. CPAP does not resolve insomnia and our objective is more or less to make it less intrusive to your ability to sleep. Keep trying. Consider perhaps adding some Melatonin, and move the clock away from where you watch it. I know first-hand how stressful it is to look at the time with the expectation I might not sleep. AHI means nothing if you're not sleeping. I think there are periods in that chart that the respiration looks like sleep, and the stress of insomnia often is deceiving in making you think you didn't sleep. In these cases, sleep is interrupted and fragmented, but it happen more than you think. This is likely more of an anxiety problem, than an actual sleep problem, but I have no way of knowing from the data Oscar gives us.
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - MoveUp - 02-20-2022
I think I slept well on Saturday night.
"I think there are periods in that chart where respiration looks like sleep." Definitely Saturday night. Friday night as well?
As for the clock, I actually have to sit up and look over my wife to see the clock. The reason I constantly would do that on Friday is to see if perhaps I fell asleep and numerous hours passed etc. I'm trying to determine when I actually fall asleep. Any ideas on how to do that without looking at the clock.
I do have an anxiety issues.
Maybe I'll try melatonin. I already use so much CBD oil before I go to bed which also helps my anxiety.
Keep the settings the same tonight as last night?
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - GuyScharf - 02-20-2022
Off your subject of therapy, your screen shots look to me like you are using Windows and have a high resolution monitor. The can result in messy fonts on the screen. We have instructions on how to fix that on the OSCAR Troubleshooting Wiki page.
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - MoveUp - 02-20-2022
(02-20-2022, 08:09 PM)GuyScharf Wrote: Off your subject of therapy, your screen shots look to me like you are using Windows and have a high resolution monitor. The can result in messy fonts on the screen. We have instructions on how to fix that on the OSCAR Troubleshooting Wiki page.
Yes my laptop uses Windows. I'm unsure how to know which Windows. It's a 7 year old Lenovo laptop. I think there have been times in the past few years where I've gotten popups to update my Windows. I think I've done so a few times. I'm not real technical. Im the guy with 0 apps on my Iphone. Well maybe 2-3 apps, which my wife downloaded for me.
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - Geer1 - 02-20-2022
Looks like your apnea is well treated at any of these settings so far. Lower pressures are usually more comfortable so as long as your AHI isn't increasing normally you can continue to try lower pressures. PS usually has a balancing point for comfort and its probably about where you currently have it. In short your settings are pretty dialed in and you could just stick with them but feel free to play around with minor changes to see what feels most comfortable to you as that is key.
I too have anxiety and it messes up my sleep more than apnea. It sounds like you have had it for years so I assume you have tried most of the treatments but will list some that helped me in the chance you aren't aware of them.
- Learning about anxiety: Understanding that anxiety is a state caused by neurotransmitters and hormones released when your bodies sympathetic nervous system is activated for whatever reason (fear, stress, apnea etc) was huge for me. It allowed me to realize when my anxiety was on and ways to turn it off.
- Deep belly breathing: One of the easiest ways to turn anxiety off and activate paraysmpathetic nervous system.
- Counselling: Very helpful if your anxiety is situational and having someone to talk to about it and give ideas on how to improve.
- CBT: Lots of different ways you can change your actions to minimize how often anxiety gets triggered as well as how to turn anxiety off when it is active.
- Sleep hygiene and CBT for insomnia: Very helpful and includes things like Sleeprider mentioned about getting rid of the clock. Literally telling yourself I don't need to sleep to be able to function tomorrow is a way to help you relax and fall asleep faster.
- Treating other health issues: Funny enough treating digestive issues had one of the biggest impacts on my anxiety and sleep. Sometimes diagnosing or figuring out a way to treat some of these issues is the hard though. If you have obvious symptoms try to find ways to improve them, don't get too caught up on them if you are unable to make progress though.
- Anxiety medications: If your anxiety is always present and not situational then it could be clinical in nature and medications like antidepressants can help although finding a good one is largely guess and check. Seems like you might have generalized anxiety disorder like me, I believe Buspirone helps slightly. I have had some positive effects with a couple other antidepressants especially when anxiety was due to a situational issue and might go back on one of them shortly to try it out again.
- Sleep: Anxiety will always be worse if you are sleeping poorly and unfortunately anxiety also minimizes your sleep putting you in a never ending cycle until you are able to break the anxiety chain and sleep better (which sometimes doesn't happen until you are exhausted).
- Sleep medications: I have tried a few different ones, most with minimal results. Dayvigo is a newer interesting one that I think has helped a bit, maybe worth looking into.
- Physical activity and being outdoors: This helps me. Not necessarily stuff like going to the gym but just being more active at work and especially having more time outdoors helps.
RE: Which is better and is there a resale market? - MoveUp - 02-20-2022
Geer.. this is a very helpful post.
Thanks!