(09-25-2014, 03:12 PM)Galactus Wrote: To me this is almost as bad as the argument for weight loss surgery. The only difference being that weight loss surgery for all its 20% complications, still having to watch what you eat after the surgery, plus a complete diet change after the surgery, and the list goes on, it is still 100% effective in so far that people lose weight 100% of the time.

(09-25-2014, 11:41 AM)bwexler Wrote: It totaly depends on the medical proffessional you find.
A surgeon's hammer is a scalpel you are a nail.

I saw a device on the news last night. It is implanted in the chest with a wired probe to detect breathing and an electrical stimulator wired under the skin to the throat to treat apnea.

I am not ready to be a guinea pig, but someone saw this thread and went out and invented the thing. It is currently be tested on actual people.

(09-25-2014, 07:10 PM)DocWils Wrote:

(09-25-2014, 03:12 PM)Galactus Wrote: To me this is almost as bad as the argument for weight loss surgery. The only difference being that weight loss surgery for all its 20% complications, still having to watch what you eat after the surgery, plus a complete diet change after the surgery, and the list goes on, it is still 100% effective in so far that people lose weight 100% of the time.

Completely untrue. I had a patient who had bariatric surgery four years ago, and in the first year had lost considerable weight, it is true. However, for reasons we cannot yet fathom, he showed up in my office with a full two thirds of his weight regained - mostly, I suspect from not taking the vitamins he would have to take the rest of his life and having gone off his diet, which he would also have to follow the rest of his life. After examining the op records and ensuring that nothing had burst or torn inside, I turfed him up to the GI dept. to get a full work up, and was informed that although in general the numbers are good in terms of keeping weight down post op, he is hardly the first they have seen with a return of weight or other, far more life threatening post op complications over a 5 year period post-op, and even more over a 20 year period post op.

In short, yes, you lose weight initially, but no, you may not always keep it off. In fact, the GI dept. informs me, there is considerable evidence that in the end, the positive results from the bariatric surgery itself is short term, and it is the continued discipline of maintaining a strict diet and a vitamin regime that maintains the weight loss 5 years post op.

Ergo, the reason one stays on a diet to maintain the correct weight is the discipline imposed by the ordeal (and perhaps the fear instilled by) the operation, and not nearly so much the operation itself, which only works to trigger the initial weight loss - in this view, bariatric surgery is no more effective than, say, gastric banding, except, unlike gastric banding, the patient has no motivator to maintain the strict diet post op, since there is no, and let's be frank in defining it, fear of death instilled in the patient as there is implied to to the patient by the surgeon (and oh, yes, we really lay it on, trust me) should they fail to take their vitamins and maintain the strict diet post bariatric surgery.

It is the very real fear of death or failure of the procedure that helps keep the weight down, not the operation in itself, which only serves to limit the caloric intake for a short time, six months at most, before the new stomach expands enough to take in larger proportions of food. However, not everyone can maintain the diet, even in the face of dire consequences should they return to their old ways, as the fear of death has receded and the quotidian discipline becomes onerous for them.

In addition, we have found that one of the primary effective aspects of the surgery, the changing of the hormonal signals from the stomach to the brain, returning the saity trigger that is missing in many people of greater girth, does not always happen, which is partly why these people lose the "fear factor" and break dietary discipline after a few years.

(09-25-2014, 07:10 PM)DocWils Wrote: In short, yes, you lose weight initially, but no, you may not always keep it off. In fact, the GI dept. informs me, there is considerable evidence that in the end, the positive results from the bariatric surgery itself is short term, and it is the continued discipline of maintaining a strict diet and a vitamin regime that maintains the weight loss 5 years post op.

(09-26-2014, 06:12 PM)archangle Wrote: I'll have to look up to see if there is good data on long term success. I know the artificial "full" feedback you get helps suppress the appetite, but I wonder if the demons deep in your brain don't eventually learn to adjust to the feedback and trigger hunger despite the full feeling and give you cravings to browse when your blood sugar drops back.

Of course, it is a treatment for a life destroying condition. It's probably worth it for some. I just think the benefits may be overemphasized, and the risks are underestimated.

(09-20-2014, 10:48 PM)manofsan Wrote: Hi, I'm a newbie on the board, and feel like I'm suffering from apnea, since my sleep is frequently interrupted by my airway passages closing (I'm quite obese).

I've started reading up on the whole apnea phenomenon, and since it seems to be caused by airways collapsing during sleep relaxation (doesn't seem to happen to me while I'm awake), then I wanted to know if any kind of electrical muscle stimulation would be capable of keeping the airway muscles from going slack and collapsing.

You know, just like with those gimmicky electrical-muscle-stimulation weight-loss devices, could it be possible to keep the relevant muscles stimulated and firmed up during sleep, to keep airways from collapsing?