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+--- Thread: [News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS (/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS)
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RE: Respironics recall - Crimson Nape - 07-01-2021
Hi Jazzmynn!
We have a thread that contains all posts regarding the Philips recall. I will be moving you post into it.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Dafod - 07-01-2021
Hi Racprops,
I tried a different approach with the Dremel/DS 1 repair. Based on a suggestion by another user I cut out sections of the interior as shown my the red markings (didn't take a photo of my final hack).
The idea with this is I don't have to cover the cut outs made since you pressure seal the pump area with the additional plastic cover. I ran it last night and it seemed to work fine. I guess we will see how long that lasts.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - qwerty42 - 07-01-2021
(07-01-2021, 09:00 AM)racprops Wrote: I STRONGLY disagree.
You're bypassing the flow and pressure sensors on the underside of the mainboard, this will allow air into the fans chamber uncontrolled and without working the pressure sensors. They made this roundabout way for the air to go from the filters to the fan for many reasons, reasons we cannot fully understand.
This will most likely disable the sensors feedback system rendering the control system inoperable. This could make the air pressure system run wild or who knows what.
My system allows the removable of the foam and the RESEALING of the chamber back to how it was made. My system returns the chamber to its original configuration just minus the foam.
Yours and the three on utube all do the same thing, leave holes in the chamber.
These chamber like the humidifier, hose and mask need an airtight seal for the system to work.
The chamber NEEDS to be airtight so that the pressure changes through out the whole system can be READ by ALL OF THE SENSORS.
Look at this:
Eek, sorry everyone!
Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't disassembled one of these myself and didn't realize there were pressure ports in those locations. The pair of side-by-side ports are almost surely where flow rate is measured with a differential pressure sensor and flow restrictor built into the chamber.The hose/mask pressure sensor is on the opposite side of the blower from the cutouts (outlet vs. intake), so administered therapy pressure would not be affected by any cutouts, BUT the machine's calculation of mass flow rate and however it's used in its algorithms could be affected.
It doesn't look like I can edit my post anymore (does the board have a time limit for that?), so unfortunately I can't change it. But I do agree: regardless of where you cut to remove the foam, it needs to get sealed back shut for all the flow sensors to work reliably.
(Side note -- looking at this now, is one of the differential pressure port taps embedded into the foam? If so, and if it's being used as a static pressure measurement, then even just removing the foam would affect its operation. Regarding why I can be trusted too, I have a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering and a master's degree in aerospace engineering, where complex air and fluid flow is the majority of study -- so I'm not ignorant to the physics behind it, I'm just ignorant to the machine since I haven't personally taken one apart yet!
)
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - qwerty42 - 07-01-2021
(07-01-2021, 11:06 PM)Dafod Wrote: Hi Racprops,
I tried a different approach with the Dremel/DS 1 repair. Based on a suggestion by another user I cut out sections of the interior as shown my the red markings (didn't take a photo of my final hack).
The idea with this is I don't have to cover the cut outs made since you pressure seal the pump area with the additional plastic cover. I ran it last night and it seemed to work fine. I guess we will see how long that lasts.
Hi Dafod, I'm really sorry -- my advice wasn't as good as I thought. I wasn't aware there were pressure ports in the chambers passing through the foam.
I've taken a much closer look now at the mainboard and the chamber, and the side-by-side pair of pressure ports is almost certainly where the machine is taking a mass flow rate measurement via differential pressure. Any cutouts upstream (toward the inlet filter) of that pair of ports will affect that measurement. Cutouts in the chamber won't affect the machine's measurement of pressure in your mask, but it could affect how it determines flow obstructions/apneas/hypopneas. Without access to their algorithm and code I can't say exactly how it uses the mass flow rate data to adjust those things.
Anyway, very sorry again for my misleading advice -- holes in the interior wall still need to get covered back up if those pair of pressure ports really are measuring mass flow rate via pressure differential.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Dafod - 07-02-2021
thanks for the feedback. Looks like I just need to open it up again and tape it closed - will grab some silicone tape (as hoping thats relatively inert). On the left cut I did take away a bit of the vertical tube - guessing I shouldn't have done that .
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - cathyf - 07-02-2021
Ok, I'm sure that I don't totally understand all of the magic that goes into cpap machines, but won't an inline filter screw up everything? The machine wants to deliver pressure X at the mask, so it uses the motor to put force Y on the airflow. Won't a filter reduce that pressure? What about the signals coming back that the machine uses to figure out what your flow rate is at every point in time -- won't the filter screw up those measurements?
My machine has a setting for whether I'm using an ffm, nasal mask, or pillows. I don't see any way to tell it that I've stuck an obstruction in the hose.
(Hey! Wait a minute! An inline filter is a flow limitation in your hose!!!)
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - SarcasticDave94 - 07-02-2021
Most of these PAPs have an AB filter setting. That's antibacterial.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - racprops - 07-02-2021
I am very relieved to see some of my advice has been taken seriously.
Allow me to explain fuller: Note this is true for Phillips systems, I cannot say this is true with ResMed as I have studied Phillips as I use them and not ResMed. But I bet they use the same system.
Concerning your sleep reports, especially Obstruction and Central Apneas, When a Phillips system detects that you have stopped breathing, it sends out a pressure pulse, which it watches very closely. IF it gets a little kickback (like a radar) it scores an Obstruction, if it gets no feedback it scores it as an Open Air Apnea. It calls any no-breath event with no pressure kickback open air.
I also believe all changes in air pressure changes the machines make are DEPENDENT on all pressure changes and READING our breathing apneas.
Without being able to read these small slight changes and feedback the machine cannot operate as it was designed to.
SO it has to have all the air passages sealed airtight for the four sensors to be able to rear these pressure changes.
LEAVING ANY holes in the foam containing housing will (I am 99% sure) will disable this function.
Rich
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - racprops - 07-02-2021
More on sleep and my machines and problems: And why I am VERY aware of the pressure sensors and the need for the chamber to be airtight.
A number of years ago I was on Medicare and access so I asked my PCP to replace my bad ASV machine…but they demanded a new sleep study, and they would only provide an APAP machine.
I was showing low AHI numbers so figured THEY were right but I was still crashing nearly every day with only about a couple of hours of being alert….this was very depressing so I looked for help:
I then spent the next two/three years seeing every Doctor I could. This put my life at risk a couple of times I had to be rushed to the hospital because of bad reactions to medication I was given in bad attends to help me.
The findings were all the same. They could not find any cause of my crashes. I joking said the Dr.s all said, “ I will live to 125 IF I don’t mind doing it so very tired getting there.”
I was at my wit's end…
Then two things turned up. The first was my wife received a Fitbit HR for Christmas.
This device seems to be able to monitor sleep cycles. Not just how long one sleeps but the sleep cycles like Light, REM, and Deep.
An important report of the Fitbit, it CANNOT report any sleep cycle of fewer than three hours. As I was wakened more often than slept it was a little hard to get full night’s sleep reports.
I found there are a number of systems to monitor your sleep cycles, I use a system by Resmed called Sleep Score Max, a good system that can give a fairly accurate of all your sleep cycles.
REM and Deep sleep cycles are very important. With low or no REM and Deep sleep cycles, you cannot function.
I got a Fitbit HR (For Heart Rate) first and found my replacement simple CPAP Machine was badly reacting and stopping most of my REM and Deep sleep cycles. I matched their time stamps and saw every time I entered REM or Deep sleep the APAP would overreact after each event and raise pressure to the point I was aroused and pushed out of either cycle, IT was shortchanging these sleep cycles.
I read up on how these machines treat apneas.
On the simple machines (not a ASV) they can do NOTHING during an apnea event all the system can do it wait until it is over and then raise the pressure to hopefully PREVENT the next event..and if it happens again the system will do NOTHING during an apnea event all the system can do it wait until it is over and then raise the pressure to hopefully PREVENT the next event, and again and again, to the point, it prevents any apneas.
The problem I fought with these systems is often the pressure changes upward would often either cause arousals OR raise the pressure so high it cause mask farts and woke me fully up.
Here is one major reason I love my ASV machines: They can take action DURING AN APNEA EVENT!! They can and will try to make you breathe, they will push air as a breath or even breath for you (as much as they can…) into your lungs.
And if they do succeed then the system will relax and NOT take any major action like jacking up the main pressure, it can return to your base setting waiting for the next event.
So I dug out my older ASV machine (a much better sleep machine, Adaptive Servo-Ventilation Machines) and did a complete setup. I soon found I have was having a major improvement in my days; my sleep cycles are much better giving me much better days.
I have had to find ways to buy or rebuild these costly machines, but in my case, they are the only way for me to have a much better life.
Rich
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Elvis61 - 07-02-2021
Morning everyone
I have had my sleep apnea clinic on the phone and they are replacing my Dreamstar with a new Dolby machine but they are trying to get the new machine on. A fast delivery due to the effects it’s has been on me