+- Apnea Board Forum - CPAP | Sleep Apnea (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Public Area (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Public-Area)
+--- Forum: Main Apnea Board Forum (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Main-Apnea-Board-Forum)
+--- Thread: [News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS (/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Phaleronic - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 04:41 PM)SarcasticDave94 Wrote: You did what you're comfortable with. I tried a DreamStation BPAP before ResMed and the ResMed is better for me, the RT says it matches my breathing patterns better or some other smoke and mirrors stuff out of their RT book for dealing with bossy patients.
Very good then, as long as we all get the treatment we need and deserve
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Phaleronic - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 04:51 PM)racprops Wrote: WARNING WARNING…OMG WE GOT IT WRONG!!!
The System One units are 100% NOT SAFE…removing the foam does not make them safe.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. It LOOKED like the foam WAS just sound deadening for the outside to the chamber, indeed the fan housing does sit on top and the fan housing is airtight so the foam seems to have NO way into the system.
WE WERE WRONG. (I am not alone) I was checking things over again and OMG the foam is PART OF THE BOTTOM OF THE AIR CHAMBER. It is the bottom wall from the filter to the air intake for the fan.
Removing this foam allows the fan to draw air from inside the casing, bypassing the filter, which I believe will throw off the system's reading as I bet it is calibrated for the slight restriction of the small passage and the filter which will now not be used.
In my opinion, ONLY the Dreamstation can be safely modified by removing its foam and resealing the chamber as per my system.
See pictures…
That's really not good.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - racprops - 07-09-2021
I know I was going to let my four System Ones out to people that needed machines in the mistaken belief they were safe and double safe especially with the foam removed.
That is now 100% DEAD.
Well, I am glad I found out before I did that.....
The only way to use them will be with new foam replacement seals/gaskets. (what they are...) and who will even consider trusting Phillips claims to its safety?? Not I.
Same with the new Dreamsation II. The new white foam looks even crappier than the old black foam.
So now to get a ResMed Air Curve 10 ASV and stockpile parts so I can keep it running for decades.
Lucky I was able to test drive a ResMed system for 5 days and it differnt from the Dreamstation, but I can live with it.
Rich
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Phaleronic - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 05:23 PM)racprops Wrote: I know I was going to let my four System Ones out to people that needed machines in the mistaken belief they were safe and double safe especially with the foam removed.
That is now 100% DEAD.
Well, I am glad I found out before I did that.....
The only way to use them will be with new foam replacement seals/gaskets. (what they are...) and who will even consider trusting Phillips claims to its safety?? Not I.
Same with the new Dreamsation II. The new white foam looks even crappier than the old black foam.
So now to get a ResMed Air Curve 10 ASV and stockpile parts so I can keep it running for decades.
Lucky I was able to test drive a ResMed system for 5 days and it differnt from the Dreamstation, but I can live with it.
Rich
Did you get an s10 or a v10?
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - racprops - 07-09-2021
It was a ResMed Air Curve 10 ASV, and I need an ASV machine.
It went back because it had a noisy fan, a malfunctioning heater for the humidifier, was costing $1300.00 and they would not allow me to open it and remove the foam filter in the fan's housing, doing so would void my 6-month warranty.
I do not want ANY foam in any machine.
So I am shopping for another Resmed machine and I almost got it, I got ResMed Air Curve 10 BiPAP, with only 20 hours run time, I took it apart and completely cleaned it with 70% Isopropyl Alcohol, (I was told that was the professional system) But I tried it and found it did not do as good a job as either ASV machine and it did about the same as my Dreamstation BiPAP machine proving that sadly I do need a full-on ASV.
So I am shopping for either another ResMed ASV or a friendly shop that will sell me an ASV main board either new or used.
If you know of one please let me know.
Rich
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - qwerty42 - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 04:51 PM)racprops Wrote: ...
The System One units are 100% NOT SAFE…removing the foam does not make them safe.
...
Removing this foam allows the fan to draw air from inside the casing, bypassing the filter, which I believe will throw off the system's reading as I bet it is calibrated for the slight restriction of the small passage and the filter which will now not be used.
Hi, are you able to see if there are any sensors in that part of the flow path on the System 1? Depending on where its mass airflow sensor is located (it's probably a differential pressure transducer like the DreamStation), removing the foam from the base might not have any affect on measurement accuracy and blower operation.
I've never seen the insides of a System 1, but the DreamStation uses closed-loop control for the blower so it doesn't care about variances in intake restriction. It just needs valid data from the mass airflow sensor and outlet pressure sensor, and the blower is then adjusted by the software to provide the correct output based on those sensors.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - racprops - 07-09-2021
Well, the Dreamstation seems to have the sensor ports in a number of places on the housing, but you're right on the System One there are only three ports attached to the unit the fourth is just open to the air within the case. And all of these are in very near the end of the output tube.
So looking at it again I can see that what happens in the output tube stays in the output tube.
None the less I do not think anyone wants unfiltered air allowed to fill their system. And I still think it was/is balanced for the restrictive air intake and for 200% or more allowed airflow intake.
Rich
[attachment=33629]
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - WakeUpTime - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 05:23 PM)racprops Wrote: Same with the new Dreamsation II. The new white foam looks even crappier than the old black foam.Maybe Philips intentionally creates systems with pre-determined obsolescence in mind. The DS2 foam too will likely break down too over 5 years, around the time Philips advises to upgrade your machine. (More rapidly with ozone cleaners.) The critical difference is that the foam in DS2 systems doesn't contain the cancer-causing chemical chemicals.
Most people stay within the brand-family. If you don't upgrade, Philips users will likely endanger their health further by ingesting the DS2 foam particles too - the punishment for not following Philips' obsolescence policy.
All this trouble over a mass-produced little piece of foam that has a volume production cost of maybe 53 cents. That strategy, enhanced by the power of SoClean, may eventually cost Philips $1 billion in replacement costs, legal costs, and lost business revenue.
Philips does well at brand-marketing amongst the professional communities (dentists, doctors, etc.). Philips then utilizes those professionals to promote to end-users. It's a strategy that has worked very well for them.
Philips' total focus on the "middle-men" recommenders (doctors, RTs, etc.) sure endangered Philips end-users.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - qwerty42 - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 09:14 PM)racprops Wrote: None the less I do not think anyone wants unfiltered air allowed to fill their system. And I still think it was/is balanced for the restrictive air intake and for 200% or more allowed airflow intake.
Hi Rich, thanks for the System One pictures--very helpful! Looks like it has the same sensors inside it as the DreamStation. The bigger dual-port one is a differential pressure sensor for mass flow rate, and the smaller dual-port one measures tube/mask pressure referenced to ambient atmospheric pressure. The cross-shaped piece you see is a flow restrictor to create the pressure delta so the larger sensor can be used to determine flow rate (to get mass air flow from a differential pressure sensor, you need a restriction to measure the pressure change across, and can then use a form of Bernoulli's equation to get approximate mass flow rate). With the way it's configured, these sensors won't care that the foam is missing--everything should still work fine. The blower will just use a little less power, if anything.
I definitely agree that the removal of this foam allowing unfiltered air to come in through the gaps in the unit is not a good thing though, so this is a temporary fix at best. If there was some way to cover the gaps with a safe filter material, that might make it a viable solution though!
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - racprops - 07-10-2021
"I definitely agree that the removal of this foam allowing unfiltered air to come in through the gaps in the unit is not a good thing though, so this is a temporary fix at best. If there was some way to cover the gaps with a safe filter material, that might make it a viable solution though!"
That is THE $64,000 Question. What is a dense SAFE material to use? The good news is it is flat, about 3/8s thick and the removed foam is a cutting template just lay in on top and cut.
Then once replaced we are off and running. Even cardboard could be used IF it is considered clean and safe. We just need a solid barrier soft enough to act as a seal and gasket-like.
Rich