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+--- Thread: BiPAP new therapy (/Thread-BiPAP-new-therapy)
RE: BiPAP new therapy - DanEm - 02-26-2023
(02-26-2023, 09:04 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: Is it positional? Of course it is. It is the only variable we can't really control.
Sleeprider, I will not argue, you know better than me.
When speaking about positional, I must conclude it can drastically change over one day.
The only help would be the collar.
But such collar does not change drastically in one day???
My body sleeping position was the same for those 2 nights, going to sleep on the left side and waking up on my back.
There was no bed sheets mess.
My plan for the moment would be to keep PS at 5.4 and get a new collar.
When I have a good span of data, I will come back to share.
if nothing else, thank you again for your patience with me
RE: BiPAP new therapy - Sleeprider - 02-26-2023
If something is dramatically different from one night to the next, but settings have not changed, it's simply illogical to conclude that the problem is the settings. The fallacy, "I'm using CPAP so it must be the problem", is too common and leads to endless settings adjustments that take the user away from efficacy. It happens all the time, so forgive me if I am adamant that setting changes are not the solution.
I know you are studying data to that evaluates the flow limitation against AHI and pressure, and are looking for patterns in that data. So far the variables you have tested have shown more or less random probabilities of predicting an outcome for flow limit. This would seem to indicate the null hypothesis that the variables you are looking at are able to be correlated for your theapy purposes.
RE: BiPAP new therapy - DanEm - 02-26-2023
Sleeprider, I do agree and my last post was trying to say that and also to look for all possibilities regarding sleep position.
I get it that most probably there is nothing much that can be done except working on the collar.
That is where I am not certain I can achieve much, but I will try.
RE: BiPAP new therapy - DanEm - 02-27-2023
I might have found something.
When looking at the pressure and flow limit. graphs in Oscar, I just realized that many times the pressure curve is flat and flow limit. is very low from start to about half of the session.
Since I always go to sleep on my left side and wake up on my back, maybe it correlates with the graphs behaviour.
Then, it would appear that when I sleep on my side, there are much less flow limit. than on my back.
Last night screenshot shows that.
So, my next step is to find a way preventing me turning onto my back.
RE: BiPAP new therapy - Sleeprider - 02-27-2023
Brilliant! That kind of thinking can solve problems. We have had members use night video to figure out positional issues and other odd things. If you're looking for ideas, you might start a thread on how to prevent back sleeping. It is really obvious where you flipped onto your back and its a pattern I had seen in your charts before and couldn't explain.
RE: BiPAP new therapy - DanEm - 02-28-2023
Here are my last night results with my right arm restrained so I could not turn on my back.
Session 2 shows 0 FL between 5:00 and 5:30 when I was awake, stayed in bed and removed the right arm restraint for the rest of my sleep.
For session 1, Oscar shows 0.01 FL.
For session 2, Oscar shows 0.36 FL (36 times more than session 1).
The night pattern for FL is similar to previous ones without the right arm restraint. First a session with no FL then for the rest of the night FL goes up.
I am certain I woke up in the middle of session 2 on my left side.
So, for my FL, the collar does not seem to make a difference nor the arm restraint.
I will repeat this test for a few nights. If the results are the same then my question will be, beside a cervical collar and a fixed side sleeping position, what can be done to repeat the results I got with the first session.
Chopping my head off is one obvious solution but I am not that desperate.
RE: BiPAP new therapy - Sleeprider - 02-28-2023
Let's keep our heads. I bet if you had a means of taking night video, you would find you found a way to your back. I'm not too big on an arm restraint. I think there are backpacks and hip belts that prevent rolling and might be more effective. Your other thread on this topic has not gotten much traction, I'll have to give it a bump.
RE: BiPAP new therapy - DanEm - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 10:06 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: Let's keep our heads. I bet if you had a means of taking night video, you would find you found a way to your back. I'm not too big on an arm restraint. I think there are backpacks and hip belts that prevent rolling and might be more effective. Your other thread on this topic has not gotten much traction, I'll have to give it a bump.
I will try a different method (backpack) tonight.
But, I am still certain I slept on the left side for the first half of the second session.
Looking forward to tomorrow's results
RE: BiPAP new therapy - DanEm - 03-01-2023
I tried the backpack stuffed with a pillow.
Wearing the pack was OK, not uncomfortable.
I went to sleep as I normally do, quickly.
See screenshot Feb 28
I took a nap in the afternoon and woke up feeling good.
I went to bed at night around 11:30.
I woke up after S2, S3 and S4 not feeling rest4d at all.
I did not use the backpack for S4 and S5.
I woke up after S5 feeling better rested.
With the backpack, I did not turn and woke up in exactly the same position, on the left side.
S3 shows that even on the left side, my FL is high.
So my theory about a relation between sleeping position and my FL is wrong.
Also, since I had the same collar for all sessions, I now believe it also has nothing to do with my FL.
I also now that if I do not wear the collar, my results are much worse.
Screenshot Jan 24
It shows the first night I used the BiPAP with no collar and no MAD. You can see the same pattern for the start of the sleeps low FL. This tends to support the fact that the collar and the MAD have no relation with FL.
Now, I have no clue what I should do next. Maybe just let it go.
RE: BiPAP new therapy - Sleeprider - 03-01-2023
Based on the limited evidence, you clearly need the collar and MAD. Flow limits are not apparently affected by the use of a backpack to prevent supine sleep. Your flow limits increase in the second half of sleep, but your AHI remains near zero. This is about optimization, not perfection. The decision is yours.