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+--- Thread: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? (/Thread-Algorithm-with-how-airsense-10-with-EPR-of-3-adjust-pressure-compared-to-a-Vauto)
Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Michaely6 - 12-11-2018
I know that alot of people consider EPR of 3 on the airsense 10 as bilevel and I was just wondering if the machine adjust pressure with the same algorithm as the Vauto.
The reason why I'm asking this is because from my understanding when EPR is set on an Airsense 10, technically the IPAP is what changes whenever a pressure adjustment is needed when it's in APAP mode (if i'm not mistaking) and the EPR of 3 or so (EPAP) is just for comfort relief. Whereas in the Vatuo, the EPAP is what changes when a pressure adjust is needed and the IPAP just follows based on the whatever the set pressure support is so technically both machines do not adjust pressure the same although they are both considered a Bilevel setting.
So a setting of a pressure of 10 with an EPR of 3 on an airsense 10 (which would equal 10/7 on a Vauto) wont adjust pressure the same as a setting of pressure of 10/7 on a Vauto.
If this is incorrect, please let me know and hopefully i didnt sound too foolish
. Hopefully I did not confuse anyone with my logic or explanation lol.
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Walla Walla - 12-11-2018
Consider you have a pressure of 10cm on the Air Sense with EPR of 3cm. On the VAUTO it would be set to 7cm EPAP with 3cm Pressure support. Both machines would react the same.
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Gideon - 12-11-2018
CPAP a single Pressure
Auto CPAP a range of single pressures
Auto CPAP w EPR a range of single pressures with EPR subtracting from that pressure (vs PS adding to Exhale pressure as in Bi Level)
BiLevel Two pressures, Exhale and Inhale which equals Exhale + PS / Pressure support
Auto BiLevel a range of Exhale Pressures and Inhale pressure which equals Exhale + PS / Pressure support
So while the algorithm is different the therapy can be the same within the limit of 3 cmw EPR is capable of.
a setting of a "fixed" CPAP pressure of 10 with an EPR of 3 on an airsense 10 (which would equal EPAP =7, PS = 3, Max IPAP 10 on a Vauto)
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Sleeprider - 12-11-2018
Your explanation or understanding seems pretty good on this and are pretty consistent with my observations. An Autoset and Vauto have no significant differences in behavior up to EPR or PS 3, as long as EPAP and IPAP are the same. So an Autoset with minimum pressure of 10 and maximum pressure of 15 with EPR 3, will adjust pressure nearly the same as , a Vauto set to EPAP min of 7.0 and maximum pressure of 15.0 with PS 3.0 (10/7 - 15/12). There may be some subtle differences in the rate of increase or decrease, but in regular Autoset mode, I have not seen it. The Vauto can be adjusted for Ti min and max and trigger/cycle sensitivity, and the Autoset may have soft and For Her modes. Other than that, the mask pressure wave form looks identical, as do the responses in pressure increases and decreases to events and flow limitations.
We don't have access to the actual algorithms, but to my eye, they are pretty similar. It makes sense that the provision for Ti, and sensitivity modify the base algorithm in the Vauto, and Mode settings are essentially different algorithm selections. The algorithms are probably similar, but we are really talking about logic settings that control a motor based on settings and sensor inputs. To the best of my knowledge, the sensors and motors are also the same.
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Michaely6 - 12-11-2018
Thanks to both of you for responding. So does the epap adjust during events on the VAuto or is it the ipap that adjust? Cause if it's the EPAP that adjust on the VAuto, doesn't that mean that the Ipap technically adjust during events on the airsense 10 when EPR is enabled? If so, how can you technically get the same results in auto mode for both machines when the EPAP is adjusting on the VAuto and the Ipap is adjusting for the airsense with EPR on
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Michaely6 - 12-11-2018
Thanks sleeprider as well. Im just now seeing your post. I think we posted at the same time lol
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Sleeprider - 12-11-2018
I think my answer addresses the auto pressure aspect. PS and EPR are a constant, and both EPAP and IPAP mkve together within the setting limits.
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - ardenum - 12-12-2018
EPR is crap, its sluggish and too short, On VAuto with Ti control and trigger, the same pressure settings could be matched to someones natural rhythm.
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Walla Walla - 12-12-2018
(12-12-2018, 04:08 AM)crowtor Wrote: EPR is crap, its sluggish and too short, On VAuto with Ti control and trigger, the same pressure settings could be matched to someones natural rhythm.
Actually EPR works for a lot of people. Maybe not you though.
RE: Algorithm with how airsense 10 with EPR of 3 adjust pressure compared to a Vauto? - Sleeprider - 12-12-2018
(12-12-2018, 04:08 AM)crowtor Wrote: EPR is crap, its sluggish and too short, On VAuto with Ti control and trigger, the same pressure settings could be matched to someones natural rhythm.
You have both machines. Compare the mask pressure wave form and convince me they are different.