+- Apnea Board Forum - CPAP | Sleep Apnea (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Public Area (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Public-Area)
+--- Forum: Main Apnea Board Forum (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Main-Apnea-Board-Forum)
+--- Thread: Data Collection - Please educate me. (/Thread-Data-Collection-Please-educate-me)
Data Collection - Please educate me. - snuffles - 01-17-2013
I note in the survey if your machine doesn't collect data it's referred to as "a brick". I use the ResMed Elite II which I understand will collect data but I don't use that feature.
Why would I collect data? For what purpose?
Some professional drivers must to prove they have slept for insurance reasons, but why would a normal retired type want to collect data?
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - zonk - 01-17-2013
all machines including "bricks" collect compliance data (hours used) to meet insurance and driving requirement
efficacy data (such as AHI, leak, etc..) is for you and your doctor to see how the therapy is working and to make any adjust if necessary
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - snuffles - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 07:48 PM)zonk Wrote: all machines including "bricks" collect compliance data (hours used) to meet insurance and driving requirement
efficacy data (such as AHI, leak, etc..) is for you and your doctor to see how the therapy is working and to make any adjust if necessary
Gee, I had no idea. Dr. just wants my machine. So I guess he gets his data and I had no idea... huh.. so I answered the survey wrong then. Colour me stupid.
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - PaulaO2 - 01-17-2013
Well, imagine yourself a diabetic. Now imagine yourself giving yourself shots without ever checking your blood sugar. The doc just asks for the empty vials to show you are taking your insulin.
Or having hypertension and never taking your blood pressure. All the doc does is count your pills to make sure you are taking them then using a wild guess to determine if the treatment is working.
Sleep apnea is the same thing. The data, such as AHI and leaks and flow rate, can help you to determine if the treatment is working. But all the doc cares about is the compliance data.
You deserve better.
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - archangle - 01-17-2013
With a data capable machine, if your therapy is not working well, your doctor or you yourself can check the results on a computer and you may be able to figure out how bad the problem is, and how to fix it. With a good data capable machine, there's a lot of info there.
Also, even if you think everything is alright, you may be having problems and don't know it. Many severe apneacs without CPAP are certain they don't have apnea, but actually do. A data capable CPAP machine is a little like having a mini sleep test every night. Periodically checking the data will spot problems much more quickly. For instance, a lot of people need their treatment adjusted after a few years because their apnea gets worse.
With a data capable machine, you can figure this out without having another expensive and inconvenient sleep test. You also check your results in the real world every night, not one night in a strange bed, with wires and stuff hooked up to you.
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - snuffles - 01-18-2013
(01-17-2013, 10:51 PM)archangle Wrote: With a data capable machine, if your therapy is not working well, your doctor or you yourself can check the results on a computer and you may be able to figure out how bad the problem is, and how to fix it. With a good data capable machine, there's a lot of info there.
Also, even if you think everything is alright, you may be having problems and don't know it. Many severe apneacs without CPAP are certain they don't have apnea, but actually do. A data capable CPAP machine is a little like having a mini sleep test every night. Periodically checking the data will spot problems much more quickly. For instance, a lot of people need their treatment adjusted after a few years because their apnea gets worse.
With a data capable machine, you can figure this out without having another expensive and inconvenient sleep test. You also check your results in the real world every night, not one night in a strange bed, with wires and stuff hooked up to you.
I think this is yet another area where Canada differs from the USA. I am monitored by an apnea specialist. He just wants me to bring in the machine. I never asked why. He does whatever to it while I sleep. Costs nothing to me. I sleep over using my own mask but the clinic's machine and I'm wired up like The Borg. I just blindly go along and do what they tell me knowing I'm being looked after. No charge to me for any of this.
I should probably ask more questions. I do know that the machine is adjusted to ensure the pressure is correct. It sounds like you folks do all this yourself while I just trust my specialist to look after all this and I just sleep.
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - SuperSleeper - 01-18-2013
Howdy snuffles, welcome to the forum!
Nothing against what you posted and it's a bit off-topic here, but I'll say it anyway, since this is a very good example of a point I try to make regularly here. [Bold emphasis in the quote is mine]
(01-18-2013, 12:12 AM)snuffles Wrote: Costs nothing to me. I sleep over using my own mask but the clinic's machine and I'm wired up like The Borg. I just blindly go along and do what they tell me knowing I'm being looked after. No charge to me for any of this.
Ah, but it does cost you. If you're an average citizen, you've been paying taxes for years for it.
This is the problem with taxpayer-funded medicine. Folks mistakenly think (understandably so) that "it's free" with "no charge". This results in a state of mind that eliminates a lot of the normal incentive to spend health care dollars in a thrifty manner, since we think "it's free".
One of the reasons we promote data-capable CPAP machines is that we know that ultimately, it would reduce health care costs, whether we're providing for our own care, or we obtain it through insurance or a government medical program. This is really what Apnea Board is all about: Patient Empowerment. (patients playing a more active and educated role in their own treatment).
The small cost of investing in a data-capable CPAP over a non-data-capable "Brick" CPAP is small compared with the future returns of both monetary savings and improved health due to properly adjusted treatment.
As always, just my personal opinions. Your mileage may vary.
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - jgjones1972 - 01-18-2013
Hi snuffles and Welcome to the forum!
Nothing against sleep doctors and in-lab sleep studies and titrations. These resources are available to many here and many on this board have used and will continue to use them.
The reason many of us monitor and adjust our own therapy is to maximize its effectiveness.
Many have found that the sleep doctors and the sleep labs are able to provide adequate therapy, but have taken matters into their own hands in order to get optimum therapy. With a little education, common sense and a data capable machine many have gotten their therapy "fine tuned" to the point that they are getting far more effective therapy than a sleep doc would or even could ever provide.
In other words, a good sleep doc may say, "AHI 5, that's good - effective therapy, see you next year". Many here may say, "I can do better - make some adustments over a long period of time looking at data trends, get AHI down to 4, 3, 2 or even lower than 1 - feel good instead of OK, or even great instead of good".
In other cases people have been stuck with doctors who aren't really all that concerned with providing even adequate therapy, so they take matters into their own hands to get the therapy they need.
All of this aside, I'm glad you have a doctor you trust.
I trust my doctor too, but that's because he tells ME to keep an eye on things. He doesn't really want to move in with me so he can keep an eye on it like I can.
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - zonk - 01-18-2013
(01-18-2013, 12:41 AM)SuperSleeper Wrote: Ah, but it does cost you. If you're an average citizen, you've been paying taxes for years for it.me can see no problem with paying taxes and get something in return
As always, just my personal opinions. Your mileage may vary.
something is better nothing (kick in the derriere)
yep your mileage vary ..... mine in kilometer
RE: Data Collection - Please educate me. - Moriarty - 01-18-2013
(01-17-2013, 07:42 PM)snuffles Wrote: .... why would a normal retired type want to collect data?
Hi Snuffles and welcome.
I like to follow my data and treatment because I like to be an active participant in my health treatment.
You seem to have a good regime going where your doctor is looking after you but he seems to be not explaining much. My nature is to want to know and understand, so I have investigated and learned as much as I can. I regularly download my own data and satisfy myself that the treatment is working correctly. It lets me understand how my day affects my night so to speak...
The other motivation for me is that here in Australia there is almost zero Medicare or private insurance support for xPAP treatment. It would be quite expensive for me to use the services of my supplier to satisfy my curiosity.
Of course the ultimate gauge of the treatment is how you feel in the morning.
All the best and stick with it...
Cheers