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+---- Thread: [Product Review] Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? (/Thread-Product-Review-Can-ClimateLineAir-Oxy-reduce-Dry-Mouth)
Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - SevereApnea - 12-04-2020
Comparison: ClimateLineAir vs ClimateLineAir Oxy for Humidity.
Currently I use the heated ClimateLineAir with my AirSense 10 For Her.
I mentioned to my sleep Tech the continual dry mouth.
She suggested the ClimateLineAir Oxy might be able deliver more humidity because of its larger diameter, so I loaned a (brand new) hose and ran some preliminary tests.
Rating for delivery of more moisture:
(this rating does not apply to those that use the Oxy hose for other reasons).
Ease of use:
ClimateLineAir Oxy plugs in easily and works as stated.
Intro:
Hose, Internal Diameter, Length, Model, Connector
ClimateLineAir, 15 mm, 2 m, 37296, Std mask fitting
ClimateLineAir Oxy, 19 mm, 1.9 m, 37357, Std mask fitting
The standard Resmed blue hose cover fits both hoses.
The hoses have the same grey mask connector so will fit all standard masks.
ClimateLineAir is listed for Resmed 10 series: internal diameter = 15 mm.
ClimateLineAir Oxy is listed for Resmed 10 series and has Internal Diameter of 19 mm: this equates to an increase of cross-sectional area of around +60%.
It fits neatly into the back of the AirSense 10 For Her and the same message comes up: ClimateLineAir connected.
Note: this is designed for use with an Oxygen feed. I made sure the end cap of the Oxygen connector remained shut.
Method:
So I ran a few preliminary tests over a couple of days: back to back tests for one hour using different masks, sitting quietly whilst reading. All settings (pressure, EPR, For Her, manual climate control and hose temperature) were kept the same. Room Temp and Humidity were recorded.
I filled the HumidAir with fresh 100 ml water at the beginning of each hour and then emptied the water and worked out how much water was used for each hour.
Results are in the attachment at the end of this post.
Limitations:
1. These were short 1 hour runs only, and may not reflect the results of a full night.
2. Also note the pressures remained constant during the testing because, of course, I was awake.
I have no idea how this would change for a full night testing with Flow limitations and increased pressures.
3. I did not test for different Hose temperature settings or compare Climate control Manual vs Auto.
4. Water used only equates to Water Delivered to the user with front connecting masks. Top connecting hoses may have some water vented out the top of the headgear connector, and so Water Used will not be the same as Water Delivered.
Results:
Water used:
For some masks there was no difference in the amount of water used.
For one mask there was a slight increase in the amount of water used, but not enough to warrant buying this for that reason alone.
Noise: both hoses were equally quiet, no noticeable difference in noise at the pressures tested. I can’t comment on what the blower might sound like if pushing through higher volumes of air at higher pressure.
Weight: the ClimateLineAir Oxy did feel a bit heavier but I didn’t notice any difference in the amount of pulling on the masks.
Comfort:
The ClimateLineAir Oxy delivered the air in the same way for the F30 M with Quiet Air connector, Amara View with Large cushion, DreamWear MW, P30i Large with holes and P30i Large with mesh.
With the F30 this felt a little more pulsatile but still acceptable.
Most noticeably however with the F30i mask the delivery of air was not so smooth, but much more pulsatile, sort of a high amplitude, low frequency pulsation. I suspect the machine algorithm was trying to compensate for something. (same sensation when temporarily switching to Soft Mode and the AutoSet mode). This felt very uncomfortable to the point of me not wanting to buy this even if the delivery of humidity was significantly better.
The only acceptable result was when using the ClimateLineAir Oxy with the Resmed F30 M mask used with the Standard elbow, with a 25% increase in Humidity Delivered.
This would also be achieved by dialling up the Manual Humidity setting.
Conclusion:
Preliminary results over 1 hour period with stable settings tell me that it is not worth using the ClimateLineAir Oxy if the only purpose is to deliver more humidity and reduce dry mouth.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - Sleeprider - 12-04-2020
The idea of your sleep tech that a Climateline Oxy would deliver more humidity than the Climateline tube is both interesting and unfounded. I can't think of what possible influence a 4 mm increase tube diameter would have on relative humidity, and have never run across this hypothesis. I'm glad you tested it, and confirmed a negative or negligible result. I appreciate your "show-me" attitude of the scientist.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - SevereApnea - 12-05-2020
Thanks Sleeprider
At least I now have one less variable to consider.
I am still interested in why the airflow delivery would feel so strange and pulsatile with some of the masks, mainly the F30i.
The loan Oxy hose is now returned and I am back to Climate Control 26C and Manual 5.
(Last night I used 33mls/hour and far less dry mouth. So I will stick with that for the current season.)
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - SarcasticDave94 - 12-05-2020
Maybe there's some odd stuff in the water near the sleep tech in Oz.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - SevereApnea - 12-05-2020
Heh heh: we do things differently
down under, but I thought it was a valid thing to look at and at least try.Last night I was on 26 degrees C hose temp, Manual 5 humidity and after 9 hours (huh? ,really?) sleep I had used up all the 300 mls of water, dry tank! So using around 33 mls per hour with much less dry mouth. This seems to work well for me with current ambient room temp around 24 Celsius and humidity around 42 - 44%.
That is good enough for me, I am happy with that.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - SarcasticDave94 - 12-05-2020
Once I get my machine issue resolved, I'll have to go over what contraptions I've got going on. It's probable I will be bending the doc and suppliers arms to get heated hose and humidifier on my new device. I did stumble onto heated circuits for what I'm pushing for. But the humidifier may be an accessory unit.
But as for your hose, whichever does the trick have at it.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - ragtopcircus - 12-13-2020
The machine does compensate for pressure drop in the hose, which is proportional to airflow and inversely proportional to hose diameter (though maybe not linear).
Pulsing is what happens when you stop breathing. It is used to discriminate between obstructive and clear airway events. Events won’t be reported if they last less than seconds. It is common for me to trigger this behavior while awake.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - StevesSp - 12-13-2020
I don't know why, but I seem to need a LOT of humidity if I am to avoid severe dry mouth. I get a lot of condensation building-up in my FF mask at my required settings and this can be occasionally irritating, but that's the lesser of two evils for me.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - ragtopcircus - 12-14-2020
Severe dry mouth with CPAP generally means mouth leaks.
RE: Can ClimateLineAir Oxy reduce Dry Mouth? - StevesSp - 12-14-2020
(12-14-2020, 12:32 AM)ragtopcircus Wrote: Severe dry mouth with CPAP generally means mouth leaks.
I am a mouth breather, hence the FF mask.