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+--- Thread: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? (/Thread-Is-re-education-of-the-airway-muscles-possible)
Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - dolceitalia - 09-19-2021
OSAS we know depends on the collapse of the airways and the consequent interruption of breathing.
About 4 months ago I started therapy.
The first month with APAP Resmed AirSense 10 Autoset 4-14 cm H2O I had the doctor prescribe to set the machine in CPAP mode at 9 cm H2O since the result had been 9.1 cm H2O median .
Not withstanding this first setting I repeated a month with Resmed AirSense 10 Autoset 4-14 cm H2O and the median was 7.8 cm H2O.
I was wondering if with a steady reduction in CPAP pressure you can get to the point of re-educating the muscles that keep the airway open to the point of abandoning the therapy.
I am trying to lower both the maximum and minimum value by 0.2 cm per day and I want to continue until I reach 5 AHI which is considered a normal value.
Tonight the setting was APAP 5-7 cm H2O.
I had AHI 1.46, up from previous days, mean pressure at 6.79 and SpO2 drop index at 1.59.
By lowering the values I have brought the large losses to zero, with elimination of any disturbance.
In addition, the dry mouth has been almost eliminated.
Moreover I am doing treatments for chronic rhinitis, I have brought the temperature to 22 °C and the humidity to 4.
Is re-education of the airway muscles possible?
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - Dog Slobber - 09-19-2021
No.
Lowering you pressure gradually would not re-educate your muscles. OSA is caused by the structure of you air passageways.
Just as, slowly the reducing ones glasses prescription, would not re-educate ones focal muscles.
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - factor - 09-19-2021
You can try these exercises to help. The OSA wont go a way by doing these but they will help some.
https://youtu.be/wNscQ3bGxNk
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - dolceitalia - 09-19-2021
(09-19-2021, 11:40 AM)factor Wrote: You can try these exercises to help. The OSA wont go a way by doing these but they will help some.
https://youtu.be/wNscQ3bGxNk
Thank you.
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - Ratchick - 09-20-2021
It doesn't work that way. As someone else said, it's the same as glasses - all reducing the strength of your prescription does is give you headaches.
Also, just because 5 is the line between "treated" and "untreated" it doesn't mean that you'll feel as good with an AHI of 4.9 as you would with an AHI of <1. What was your AHI at diagnosis?
As well as you AHJ, I'd want to look at RERAs and also flow limitations too. The fact that your AHI is going up means that you are making your therapy less effective - and if you have no reason to do so (such as aerophagia, discomfort in your chest/ears, treatment-induced centrals etc), why would you? Many (if not most) adults need at least 7cmH2O not to feel air hunger so going much lower seem like a bad idea. It sounds like you were having mouth leaks, but the first resolution shouldn't necessarily be to reduce your pressure. However, without an OSCAR chart, this is all just guesswork.
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - dolceitalia - 09-20-2021
Hi,
I have had 4 polysomnographies, AHI 39- 44- 58 - 39.
I have only been using APAP for 4 months.
In the first period I changed masks, tube, temperature, humidity due to lack of comfort, as it happens to everyone, due to air leaks, dry mouth, lack of air etc.
Now I have found a very good balance with the ResMed P10 mask, temperature at 22° and humidity at 4, no ramp.
Even with only a few hours of sleep, I feel very rested and have resumed physical activity that I had given up due to fatigue.
Tonight with 4.8 6.8 I had AHI 0.97 apnea time of 44 sec.
Next night I'm going to go down to 4.6 -6.6 H2O and I want to continue until I feel the sleep quality getting worse.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - Ratchick - 09-20-2021
I mean... if you're going to do what you were already planning, regardless, then so be it.
You can lead a horse to water, etc.
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - Mosquitobait - 09-20-2021
My late BIL had very mild sleep apnea and wouldn't get a machine. He used a didgeridoo for about 5 months and his snoring stopped at that point. He continued to use it until a year before he died (stopped after injuries from an accident). Snoring came back a few months later but never like it was before. Keep in mind that they lived in rural area with only farmland and trees. Would be rather annoying in suburbia.
RE: Is re-education of the airway muscles possible? - dolceitalia - 09-21-2021
(09-20-2021, 03:36 AM)Ratchick Wrote: It doesn't work that way. As someone else said, it's the same as glasses - all reducing the strength of your prescription does is give you headaches.
Also, just because 5 is the line between "treated" and "untreated" it doesn't mean that you'll feel as good with an AHI of 4.9 as you would with an AHI of <1. What was your AHI at diagnosis?
As well as you AHJ, I'd want to look at RERAs and also flow limitations too. The fact that your AHI is going up means that you are making your therapy less effective - and if you have no reason to do so (such as aerophagia, discomfort in your chest/ears, treatment-induced centrals etc), why would you? Many (if not most) adults need at least 7cmH2O not to feel air hunger so going much lower seem like a bad idea. It sounds like you were having mouth leaks, but the first resolution shouldn't necessarily be to reduce your pressure. However, without an OSCAR chart, this is all just guesswork.
This night (4,6 6,6) I feel aerophagia.
I am going back to 4,8 6,8.
I think that I had inspirated the same air that expired.