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+--- Thread: OSCAR: OSCAR - DS2 Status (/Thread-OSCAR-OSCAR-DS2-Status)
OSCAR - DS2 Status - Gideon - 12-01-2021
As many know, Philips Respironics (PR) has obstructed access to the Detailed Data contained on the SD card by encrypting this data with a rotating key. Why? See the two responses we have gotten from PR representatives below. Obviously, we at OSCAR do not agree with this philosophy.
Quote:We are obviously knowledgeable about the OSCAR software and understand that some users would like to obtain more granular data from their therapy. From the evaluations we conducted during the development of DreamMapper, we learned that providing too much information by default is confusing and raises more questions than it answers. The result of this exercise is DreamMapper where the necessary therapy data is offered with the necessary support to achieve adherence (instructional videos, motivation).
Of course, we understand that for some users, and this is rather a very limited group, the information offered is too limited and they would like to obtain additional data. In this case, we recommend contacting your home care provider and/or treating physician who can print and hand over a detailed report or possibly offer it to the users through their systems (just like blood analyses and imaging protocols). However, professionals should not fail here as suggested. Therapy support/counseling is further regulated by law and should be performed by (sleep) professionals who have a healthcare relationship with the patient.
Quote:Good morning ***** ******,
While I cannot speak to Oscar as that is not our software, I can say that with the DreamStation 2 machines, we have moved away from patients being able to read the SD cards themselves (the SD cards can still be read by your doctor and medical supply company though). So that is likely the cause of why Oscar cannot read the data but I cannot say for certain.
The OSCAR Development team believes patients are fully entitled ethically and legally to view and use the detailed data generated by their PAP machines in any way they feel is helpful for them to pursue effective and comfortable therapy. The OSCAR team recognizes the importance of having access to this data and is moving forward on providing access to this detailed data, especially for all the users who have had no choice but to accept the DS2 and its changes in data accessibility through the recall.
We are moving forward with OSCAR development to support the DS2. The development team expects an extended beta program to make sure any release functions as expected and is accurate in reporting the data. We are also in the middle of the holiday season, which always slows things down. A release date for a beta or full-release version is unknown and depends on what we encounter along the way. DS2 users should anticipate at least 3 months and possibly more. We will try to keep interested DS2 users advised as we make more concrete progress.
DS2 users, we recommend all DS2 users keep an SD card in their machine so that they will be able to access all their previous data when OSCAR supports it.
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - dataq1 - 12-01-2021
Thanks, and your efforts on behalf of all are really appreciated
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - ST Dog - 12-02-2021
(12-01-2021, 09:21 AM)Gideon Wrote: by encrypting this data with a rotating key.
Rotating key? WTF. That's a lot of extra effort to hide the data.
A single key for all machines would be enough to meet the stated objectives.
A per-machine key would make life quite difficult for the OSCAR team.
But a rotating key? So every day/week/month a new key? That's stronger than DoD uses for most stuff.
Total overkill with the sole purpose of keeping a user's data from the user.
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - LindanHotAir - 12-02-2021
The SecurID dongles generated a new rotating key every minute. Is Philips providing key generation devices to DMEs and doctors?
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - Sleeprider - 12-02-2021
I think the Philips Care Orchestrator software that allows the doctors and DMEs to a ccess and view the data is cloud based, so keys can be generated at the server level. I am far removed from this aspect of the work, so consider that a guess. As you can see, Philips wants access to be extremely limited and secure https://www.careorchestrator.com/proxy/clientstash/help/en/index.htm#customer_setup.htm
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - sawinglogz - 12-03-2021
(12-01-2021, 09:21 AM)Gideon Wrote: DS2 users, we recommend all DS2 users keep an SD card in their machine so that they will be able to access all their previous data when OSCAR supports it.
Also, in the rare even that a DS2 user gets a second/replacement DS2, they should use a new SD card for that machine.
Due to a rather..."interesting" implementation, the directory in which the DS2 stores its data depends only on the first 4 digits of the serial number, not all 8 as before. So you have a non-trivial chance of a new DS2 overwriting data from your previous machine if you use the same SD card.
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - cathyf - 12-03-2021
I would recommend that you get multiple SD cards and swap them regularly -- I would worry that your machine will delete data after it's uploaded. I would also recommend that you do a low-level copy of your card to your computer as often as your level of paranoia tells you is needed. The data may be encrypted, but you will at least be able to see file sizes and know if the amount of data on the card is shrinking or growing.
I know that you all think that I am paranoid, but I've been a professional software developer on and off for the last 36+ years. All of the OSCAR developers can confirm this, too -- the process of tracking down and fixing software bugs is inherently manual, and virtually every time there is some part which is excruciatingly difficult. The fundamental characteristic of this process is that can't predict in advance when the last problem will be fixed. You have software that is malfunctioning in some way, and you search for something wrong in what is often hundreds of thousands or millions of lines of code. Each time you recognize a problem you engineer and implement a solution, you rebuild the software, and you see if it's still broken, or now it's broken in some other way. (This is not that programmers are stupid, this is an inherent property of software as a consequence of Gödel's Theorem.)
Finishing the DS2 before announcing the foam problems was clearly something that was a bet-the-company proposition. Announcing the problems without an alternative machine would put the company out of business.
The "coincidence" of the DS2 being "ready to ship" on the exact day that the foam problems became impossible to hide further is "very conveeeeeeeenient".
Is it really finished? Sure, it's not impossible. Encrypting the data makes it a whole lot harder for anyone to detect if the machine has any remaining software bugs, and the seriousness of those hypothetical bugs...
(Another consequence of Gödel's Theorem is that it is fundamentally impossible to distinguish a true demo from a guy behind the curtain. The Wizard of Oz problem. Is the DS2 a real APAP that follows the documented algorithm on the machine's settings?)
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - Tampabaysailor - 12-11-2021
Philips left us with no choice on maintaining our existing machines, and therefore no choice on loosing OSCAR compatibility.
My DME only supports Resmed, and my doctor does not use Philips Care Orchestrator, and Philips does Care Orchestrator free to me.
We should all write Philips and our legislators about giving OSCAR access to SD card data.
Maybe we can get a class action started, there must be a bunch of lawyers in the rgroup.
RE: OSCAR - DS2 Status - Gideon - 12-11-2021
(12-11-2021, 02:41 PM)Tampabaysailor Wrote: We should all write Philips and our legislators about giving OSCAR access to SD card data.
Read a little between the lines in my initial post.
We are working thru the typical issues we see in a new device. We cannot do this without access to the data.