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+--- Thread: Can the machine hurt you? (/Thread-Can-the-machine-hurt-you)
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Can the machine hurt you? - David Clark - 02-27-2022
Let's say you're diagnosed with OSA. I know the "go to" is CPAP but let's say you bought an ASV machine. I would think the ASV would treat your apneas but could the machine do any harm since it's not technically "necessary" since you don't have central/complex apnea? I know it would be overkill but could it actually be harmful?
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - SarcasticDave94 - 02-27-2022
The short answer is no. You'd need to edit settings to what your body needs, as with any machine, or it will be uncomfortable. It can't, for example, blow up your lungs. Not even the ventilator can blow them up, inflate yes, but the exploding type of damage, no.
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - staceyburke - 02-27-2022
No an asv can’t hurt you but it will do nothing the VAUTO will do except if you have excessive centrals. The VAUTO is an excellent machine that has many adjustments that the autoset does not.
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - JJJ - 02-27-2022
Only if you drop it on your foot.
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - Gideon - 02-27-2022
Do note, and I think you do, that different machines are designed to treat different conditions.
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php/Prescription_-_CPAP_-_APAP_-_BIPAP#CPAP_choice_to_treat_OSA.2C_CA.2C_obstructive_or_pulmonary_restriction
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - Geer1 - 02-27-2022
Imo using a machine that is overkill can definitely be harmful to your treatment. Some of these machines can be potentially harmful to you if used with poor enough settings (especially if used with such settings for months/years).
Some examples of issues that arise more often with more advanced machines.
- Aerophagia. Too high of pressure or pressure fluctuations causes aerophagia. Lots of people complain about aerophagia with ASV due to the periods of high PS.
- Sensitivity/insomnia due to pressure fluctuations. This again mostly applies to ASV which either only acts as a fixed pressure machine or a fluctuating pressure machine (5 cm min difference between min PS and max PS) and nothing in between. This along with the aerophagia make ASV a poor choice for many mild cases.
- Discomfort. Some machines like Resmed ST only have square waveforms which most people find uncomfortable to the point of nearly being unusable.
- Out of sync. Machines with timing controls or backup rate can be out of sync of your spontaneous breathing if settings are not correct.
- Over ventilation. Setting too high of pressure support causes things like central apnea and hypocapnia. If set poorly enough this can cause serious issues like hypoxia. This is especially a concern with machines that have backup rate and a target ventilation (ASV and iVAPS) and I have seen multiple members over ventilate themselves although most usually realize how poorly their treatment was and make corrections to settings.
Basic bilevels (vauto) have few risks and all can be negated if decent settings are used. ASV has a bit higher risk and don't work well for many cases. Even more specialized machines like ST and ST-A iVAPS have significantly more risk and don't work well for the majority of cases.
The thing you need to remember is that the more capable a machine is the more intrusive it is because its job is to treat people that have significant breathing issues (central apena, COPD, neuromuscular disorders etc). This intrusiveness is not advantageous to the majority of cases which only require basic pressure to hold their airway open.
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - sheepless - 02-28-2022
I was inclined to reply with a simple 'nah' but Geer1's answer is more nuanced and accurate.
asv isn't likely to cause significant or permanent harm but it probably won't treat you as well as other modalities if you don't have central or mixed apnea. you should become aware of this if/as you experience the kinds of symptoms itemized above. I would think the very small chance of serious harm would occur only if you ignore those symptoms.
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - sawinglogz - 02-28-2022
You can, of course, dumb down an ASV into a CPAP by setting the PS min and max to 0 and Min/max EPAP to your desired pressure.
But it costs about 4-5x, so generally not worth it if you don’t need ASV.
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - Geer1 - 03-01-2022
(02-28-2022, 09:39 PM)sawinglogz Wrote: You can, of course, dumb down an ASV into a CPAP by setting the PS min and max to 0 and Min/max EPAP to your desired pressure.
But it costs about 4-5x, so generally not worth it if you don’t need ASV.
My understanding is that Resmed ASV PSmax has to be at least 5 cm higher than PSmin so the lowest range you can use is PSmin = 0, PSmax = 5.
I believe the only exception to this is if you change to CPAP mode and use fixed pressure.
Especially now with the inflated costs I wouldn't consider using an ASV unless I had central apnea or stumbled upon a crazy good deal.
RE: Can the machine hurt you? - SarcasticDave94 - 03-01-2022
Correct on the ASV Geer1. A ResMed ASV, in ASV or ASV Auto modes, it requires PS Min and Max to be separated by at least 5. It has a CPAP mode that is a static single pressure otherwise. But if CPAP mode is good enough, just get CPAP. ASV to run as CPAP is overkill and wasting lots of money.