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+--- Thread: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion (/Thread-At-my-wit-s-end-water-in-pillow-cushion)
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At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - fumugu1234 - 12-05-2022
I've been using a brand new airsense 11 with a p10 for 4 months, with the odd rainout. I have the machine below my head, a fleece cover, everything on auto etc. About a month ago I told myself, the first time the cpap's condensation wakes me up I will remove it and not put it back on. Well I've been averaging 90 minutes a night now because of it. I tried upping the temp and lower the humidity. I get water in my nose every single night without fail. I have been sleeping better without the cpap because of this issue. I tried one night without any water but it was too harsh and drying and that woke me up too.
Last night I tried setting humidity to 1 and temp to 30C, I think this setting would produce the least amount of water possible right? I kept the room temperature warmer than usual at 20.5C (I like it at 19C). I woke up 90 minutes later with a dry throat yet my nose was STILL wet. I tape my mouth at night so it's very obvious when the tape is wet from the CPAP. When I inspected the tubing, everything seemed dry except the pillow cushion. I never hear anything coming from the machine like the gurgling sounds that are typical with rainout. It's like the condensation only builds up in the cushion? I replaced the mask 4 months ago, and the pillow cushion last month. Any suggestions?
A photo of my setup with mask connected attached:
[attachment=46188]
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - horsepower - 12-05-2022
Have you tried without the fleece, and humidity at 0? I have never had a rain out and thats the setting I use... I still put water in as it provides passive humidity.
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - Nightynite - 12-05-2022
Hey Fumuga! Just turn off the humidifier. Leave water in the tank and you will still get moisture.
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - PaulaO2 - 12-05-2022
If the moisture is ONLY in the mask, it is from you, not the tank. I get that a lot if the bedroom is cold or cooler than usual. There's not much to do about that, except sleep with your head under the covers. I wake up blowing water in the air like I'm a whale.
If you get the tube snoring, then it is rainout. Since each night is different, even if you have the heat on, you need to pick a temp setting and leave it. Like put it on auto.
Also just turn off all the humidification and hose temp, put water in the tub, and try that. It is called passover humidification. That's all I use in the summer, if I feel the need for it like during allergy season or whatever. Some people never use the humidifier.
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - Crimson Nape - 12-05-2022
I see you list a P10. Even if you use a heated hose and/or a hose cover, the P10's umbilical hose isn't insulated and is still susceptible to formation of condensation when the other isn't. With this type of mask hose design, you have to adjust the humidity for the weakest link.
- Red
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - fumugu1234 - 12-06-2022
(12-05-2022, 01:06 PM)horsepower Wrote: Have you tried without the fleece, and humidity at 0? I have never had a rain out and thats the setting I use... I still put water in as it provides passive humidity.
Does the fleece do something negative? If I put humidity at 0, do I turn off the temperature too? I turned both off last night and left water in the tank and my cushion still got wet at 19.5C...
(12-05-2022, 02:21 PM)Nightynite Wrote: Hey Fumuga! Just turn off the humidifier. Leave water in the tank and you will still get moisture.
I tried last night and my cushion still got wet.
(12-05-2022, 03:14 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: If the moisture is ONLY in the mask, it is from you, not the tank. I get that a lot if the bedroom is cold or cooler than usual. There's not much to do about that, except sleep with your head under the covers. I wake up blowing water in the air like I'm a whale.
If you get the tube snoring, then it is rainout. Since each night is different, even if you have the heat on, you need to pick a temp setting and leave it. Like put it on auto.
Also just turn off all the humidification and hose temp, put water in the tub, and try that. It is called passover humidification. That's all I use in the summer, if I feel the need for it like during allergy season or whatever. Some people never use the humidifier.
Do you know the reason we create moisture to this area on our own? I tried this passover thing last night and it still got wet.
(12-05-2022, 03:30 PM)Crimson Nape Wrote: I see you list a P10. Even if you use a heated hose and/or a hose cover, the P10's umbilical hose isn't insulated and is still susceptible to formation of condensation when the other isn't. With this type of mask hose design, you have to adjust the humidity for the weakest link.
- Red
What other mask hose designs don't have this fault in their design? I'm willing to try others. I cut a sock and tied it over the umbilical hose last night but it didn't work, and it also made it heavier/less comfortable when tossing and turning. I'll keep playing with the sock the next few nights though.
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - PaulaO2 - 12-06-2022
There is moisture in our lungs. We breathe out warm air. It condenses in the mask because it is colder than the air we just breathed out. You need to find some way to keep the mask itself warm. Take a sock and thread the mask through it somehow. Be sure to leave an opening for the expelled air to escape.
Rainout is the reverse of what happens when we take a can of soda out of the cool fridge and put it in the hotter air. Condensation from the air forms on the colder can. For us, the air in our bedroom can be cooler than the air in the hose which causes the air to condensate on the inside of the hose which then drips and gathers in the lowest part of the hose.
Some things to try (but do it one at a time, giving at least three nights between each time):
- warming up the bedroom (probably won't do anything but can't hurt to try)
- leave water out of the tank and turn off the humidifier. leave the tube on.
- fill the tank, leave tube on, but leave tank humidification low
- do the above but put on auto
- and, to be honest, just live with it. It happens.
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - StratCat48 - 12-06-2022
With all that's been suggested I don't believe I have any ideas to offer, but I am curious about your change from the AirSense 10 you started using just back in April 2022 to the AirSense 11 you've now been using for 4 months as of this post. A previous post back in April you mention the wet mask back then with the AS10. Did you change from the AS10 to AS11 thinking the new machine might solve the wet mask issue or change for another reason?
https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-New-here-First-month-OSCAR-results-How-can-I-optimize-my-AHI
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - fumugu1234 - 12-07-2022
(12-06-2022, 02:55 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: There is moisture in our lungs. We breathe out warm air. It condenses in the mask because it is colder than the air we just breathed out. You need to find some way to keep the mask itself warm. Take a sock and thread the mask through it somehow. Be sure to leave an opening for the expelled air to escape.
Rainout is the reverse of what happens when we take a can of soda out of the cool fridge and put it in the hotter air. Condensation from the air forms on the colder can. For us, the air in our bedroom can be cooler than the air in the hose which causes the air to condensate on the inside of the hose which then drips and gathers in the lowest part of the hose.
Some things to try (but do it one at a time, giving at least three nights between each time):
- warming up the bedroom (probably won't do anything but can't hurt to try)
- leave water out of the tank and turn off the humidifier. leave the tube on.
- fill the tank, leave tube on, but leave tank humidification low
- do the above but put on auto
- and, to be honest, just live with it. It happens.
I appreciate your detailed replies! I thought no water with heat on can damage the machine? I did the sock thing, and no difference. I tried no water or temp, and the pillow cushion was definitely wet, so you're right. It's not rainout, it's my breathing...I wonder if my mouth tape has any impact.
(12-06-2022, 04:34 PM)StratCat48 Wrote: With all that's been suggested I don't believe I have any ideas to offer, but I am curious about your change from the AirSense 10 you started using just back in April 2022 to the AirSense 11 you've now been using for 4 months as of this post. A previous post back in April you mention the wet mask back then with the AS10. Did you change from the AS10 to AS11 thinking the new machine might solve the wet mask issue or change for another reason?
https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-New-here-First-month-OSCAR-results-How-can-I-optimize-my-AHI
The 10 was a rental until an 11 came in stock.
RE: At my wit's end - water in pillow cushion - SnoringInOregon - 12-10-2022
I love my P10 mask, and it's all I use, but ...
Water in the P10 mask can be a serious problem.
Something is wrong with your machine or environment. Don't allow this issue to persist. When I dialed back my humidity my water problems went away but clearly your issue isn't so simple.
Here is a post of mine from a few years ago. I attached a screenshot showing how my "Leak Rate" dropped really low when I got water in my mask. In short, I was suffocating. http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Equipment-Rebreathing-causing-Hypercapnia-CO2-–-Carbon-Dioxide-Poisoning?pid=285024#pid285024
But I guess that Apneaboard doesn't keep attachments forever, because I don't see mine there? Only something that says "[attachment=10179]".
After that thread, user mdmarmd created a followup thread about this issue: http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-EVIDENCE-OF-AIRFIT-P10-VENT-OBSTRUCTION-CAUSING-HYPERCAPNIA
The bottom line is, if your P10 vents are clogged, you can't breathe out. Nowhere for the air to go. But that was years ago, it's possible that Resmed has redesigned the vents so that the problem has been alleviated?
Unfortunately the Dreamstation (which I was using at the time), together with SleepyHead, reported things differently than your Resmed with OSCAR software. So looking at Leak Rate for a Resmed won't give you comparable information. My current setup with AirSense 11 together with P10 "just works" so I'm not familiar enough with the new machine's graphs to tell you what to look for.
As a guess, try looking at Tidal Volume and Minute Vent. graphs to see if they drop when your mask is flooded. Also see if your Resp. Rate increases as your body tries to compensate.