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Inventory of non-CPAP treatments and other questions - SleepyBoi - 04-10-2023
Hello,
I hope you are all feeling well rested today.
I am not currently diagnosed but I strongly suspect that I have some form of untreated sleep apnea. Proper diagnosis will probably take many months due to how the healthcare system works in my region. In the intervening time, I am looking to investigate treatments that don't involve a mask or a prescription from a licensed medical professional.
I have taken a look at the wiki page which proposes a number of such treatments (might skip the didgeridoos though
). My first question is whether that list is exhaustive and whether there are other lists and resources of this type you would recommend looking at, such as an inventory of myofascial exercises for instance. I am currently feeling overwhelmed by the amount of research to look through and lack of rest in general so anything that might alleviate the mental burden would be a huge help.Second question is whether there are any reliable products that can help monitor sleep quality, even if of course they will be less reliable than medical-grade equipment. The idea would just to have some degree of indication that my sleep suddenly worsens or improves if I do so-and-so over the course of my daily life. Currently, I'm looking at the Withings sleep monitor which seems more or less legit but I'd love a second opinion.
Finally, I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with sleep apnea diagnosis in Quebec and if you have any general advice.
Thanks for reading!
TL;DR 1. Any recommended treatments and exercises pre-CPAP 2. What to buy to monitor sleep quality to some degree while I wait for medical evaluation 3. Any Quebec-specific advice relating to apnea
RE: Inventory of non-CPAP treatments and other questions - cdplatt - 04-11-2023
I think a smart watch that tracks sleep combined with a quality pulse oximeter can provide data that correlates well with the data that is provided from my CPAP. I frequently use that combination to try other methods to improve the quality of my sleep when I go into self-denial again about apnea. Things like internal nasal dilators, external nasal strips, sleeping on my side or belly all tend to help. You can also order custom made mandibular advancement devices through a dentist or directly from some quality producers that can be found on the internet. I wouldn't do that without a solid professional diagnosis though. If your smart watch gives you a crummy grade for sleeping and your pulse oximeter shows numerous O2 desaturations below 90% or 4% from your baseline, it's a safe bet you are suffering from some level of apnea. Anything you can think of to increase the flow is worth trying until you get your hands on a pap machine and turn yourself into a human balloon.
RE: Inventory of non-CPAP treatments and other questions - SnoNoMo - 04-12-2023
In Canada you can buy a BongoRX without a prescription. They are FDA approved for mild to moderate sleep apnea.
RE: Inventory of non-CPAP treatments and other questions - BuzzaJim - 04-12-2023
I’ve had great success with an Apple Watch; been using one for years. First for Afib and it has never been wrong. Heart rate and normal sinus rhythm have been correlated against clinical equipment many times.
More recently the Blood Oxygen readings from my Apple Watch were enough to get my family doc to refer me to a sleep specialist. It meets all the requirements suggested by @cdplatt. I wore it during two sleep studies and it correlated well with the low SPO2 readings recorded for the sleep doctor.
I had another visit from Afib just weeks before I was scheduled to get my BiPap machine to begin therapy. According to my watch, my blood oxygen dropped below 90% regularly at night, sometimes near 80%. It took 15 days to be scheduled for a cardio version, where I was shocked back into rhythm. I’ve had the procedure often enough to know the prep and what to expect afterwards. It was something I had hoped to avoid by having the ablation.
This cardio version was different. Previously, it was like going in for a tuneup. I would be back in normal sinus rhythm and ready to go. This time I was in normal sinus rhythm but still felt like crap. I was still short of breath, didn’t feel like doing anything, couldn’t sleep well and woke up in the morning with a slight headache. While I slept, my blood oxygen still dipped below 90% and my heart rate was erratic. Still in rhythm but very erratic.
That went on for three days, until I picked up my new machine and began therapy. That was when my life changed and I found new hope. I didn’t sleep much that night but kept the mask on and machine running. When I checked my watch data the next morning, I found my blood oxygen never dropped below 92% and my heart rate no longer showed those wild variations while I slept. That was February 26 of this year and my results have only gotten better every week.
All that, thanks to a three year old Apple Watch. It also has sleep tracking which I never really paid much attention to. I’ve recently noticed that my sleep fragmentation has improved and I’m getting more REM sleep at even intervals throughout the night. It’s also a great workout coach to monitor my activity and cardio workouts.
You came to the right place, whether or not you ever need Cpap therapy. I know there are plenty of Canadian members who can give you an idea what to expect negotiating your way through “the system”. It was a PIA here but from posts on this BB I discovered I was in good company. There are a lot of smart folks here, more than willing to help.
The last sentence from @cdplatt is especially true. Anything that helps you breath more freely is important, whether on therapy or not. I haven’t felt like a human balloon, though. Guess I’m lucky.
Jim
RE: Inventory of non-CPAP treatments and other questions - Plmnb - 04-12-2023
"All that, thanks to a three year old Apple Watch. It also has sleep tracking which I never really paid much attention to. I’ve recently noticed that my sleep fragmentation has improved and I’m getting more REM sleep at even intervals throughout the night. It’s also a great workout coach to monitor my activity and cardio workouts."
I am an Apple person. My phone is apple and my laptop is Apple. I never wanted an Apple watch though because my other items seemed enough. But after reading your post I am now contemplating purchasing the Apple watch. Would you mind telling me what program on the watch is capable of tracking sleep fragmentation and REM sleep and etc. Also, how?
I'm at my wits end trying to finally get this apnea biz whipped. For about 23 years off and on.
Thank you.
RE: Inventory of non-CPAP treatments and other questions - BuzzaJim - 04-12-2023
My watch is paired with my iPhone so the sleep data is processed and stored within the Health app on my phone. The watch does have apps for heart rate and blood oxygen but mostly works as a sensor. The oxygen sensor works best when you’re sleeping and it doesn’t sample nearly as often as a dedicated oximeter but it correlates really well with hospital equipment.
From within the Health app, charts and trends can be accessed. I look at Heart Rate Variability (HRV) and blood oxygen every morning. HRV is calculated from the heart rate data from the Watch. That data is also filtered to determine Afib or normal sinus rhythm. It can’t detect any other arrhythmias but Afib is the silent killer I’m concerned about.
I’m not sure how the Watch and Health app determine sleep stages and amounts but it’s giving daily summaries that are changing for the better as I adjust to BiPap therapy. I think it’s derived from the Watch motion sensors respiratory data and heart rate data. I’m only six weeks into therapy and am still dialing myself in but my watch data tells me I’m on the right track.
I was diagnosed with congestive heart failure and Afib almost nine years ago. It wasn’t until last year that a Nurse Practitioner in the cardiology clinic suggested that I be screened for sleep apnea. It was at the bottom of their list of possible triggers for Afib. My family doc was skeptical about the referral until I showed the low oxygen levels my watch was recording at night. I am convinced I’ve had undiagnosed OSA for years, especially when I was 80 pounds heavier.
I bought my first watch just to monitor my heart rhythm and physical exercise. I’m on my second now and never anticipated it to be helpful dealing with my sleep apnea. I’ll probably trade it in for a new one this fall. Apple make products that work.
Having said all that, I understand that everyone’s experience is a little different and that there will be setbacks. That is why I joined the apneaboard.
Jim
RE: Inventory of non-CPAP treatments and other questions - BuzzaJim - 04-25-2023
My watch is paired with my iPhone so the sleep data is processed and stored within the Health app on my phone. The watch does have apps for heart rate and blood oxygen but mostly works as a sensor. The oxygen sensor works best when you’re sleeping and it doesn’t sample nearly as often as a dedicated oximeter but it correlates really well with hospital equipment.
From within the Health app, charts and trends can be accessed. I look at Heart Rate Variability (HRV) and blood oxygen every morning. HRV is calculated from the heart rate data from the Watch. That data is also filtered to determine Afib or normal sinus rhythm. It can’t detect any other arrhythmias but Afib is the silent killer I’m concerned about.
I’m not sure how the Watch and Health app determine sleep stages and amounts but it’s giving daily summaries that are changing for the better as I adjust to BiPap therapy. I think it’s derived from the Watch motion sensors respiratory data and heart rate data. I’m only six weeks into therapy and am still dialing myself in but my watch data tells me I’m on the right track.
I was diagnosed with congestive heart failure and Afib almost nine years ago. It wasn’t until last year that a Nurse Practitioner in the cardiology clinic suggested that I be screened for sleep apnea. It was at the bottom of their list of possible triggers for Afib. My family doc was skeptical about the referral until I showed the low oxygen levels my watch was recording at night. I am convinced I’ve had undiagnosed OSA for years, especially when I was 80 pounds heavier.
I bought my first watch just to monitor my heart rhythm and physical exercise. I’m on my second now and never anticipated it to be helpful dealing with my sleep apnea. I’ll probably trade it in for a new one this fall. Apple make products that work.
Having said all that, I understand that everyone’s experience is a little different and that there will be setbacks. That is why I joined the apneaboard.
Jim