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+--- Thread: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? (/Thread-Can-use-ASV-machine-as-Bipap-S-T-machine)
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Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - soyjer - 08-04-2024
Just curious:
Currently using a Dreamstation Bipap S/T with 14/10 and 8 BPM.
If I set up a Dreamstation AutoSV such that PSmax=PSmin=4, EPAPmax=EPAPmin=10, and 8 BPM, would I then have approximately the same Bipap S/T therapy as above?
I realize that the Aircurve ASV doesn't allow me to set BPM, so I am asking about the Dreamstation AutoSV here, but if the concept is correct, then I could live with the Aircurve ASV's auto-BPM with 15 backup.
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - soyjer - 08-04-2024
Actually, I just noticed that the Aircurve 10 PS min/max allowable setting ranges wouldn't allow PSmax=PSmin=4, and so it would have to be PSmax=PSmin=5, instead (so 15/10 instead of 14/10).
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - Sleeprider - 08-05-2024
The Resmed Aircurve 10 (not-ASV) allows PS of 4 or 5 or anything in-between There is no PS Min or max on a Resmed, the PS is one setting and delivered consistently. The Philips machines allow a range of PS, but that is not like ASV as the PS changes relatively slowly based on the algorithm. ST stands for spontaneous and timed trigger. All auto bilevel machines are spontaneous (S) triggered.
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - soyjer - 08-05-2024
But I was asking exclusively about the ASV machines, where if you set PSmax=PSmin=5 and EPAPmax=EPAPmin=10, and BPM=X, the machine would be limited to 15/10,X, functioning just like a BIPAP S/T, no? ( I realize that with the the Aircurve 10 ASV, X would equal "Auto" and would wander, but I could live with that.)
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - Sleeprider - 08-05-2024
Your comment was very confusing and specifically discussed a Dreamstation Bipap S/T, as well as the BiPAP AutoSV and unspecified Aircurve 10. I'll try again.
Only the Philips AutoSV can be setup the same PS min and max of 5.0, and fixed EPAP of 10.0 in either S-mode or ASV mode. That should deliver the same IPAP/EPAP of 15/10 on each breath and maintain the set backup rate where spontaneous breathing is not present. The Resmed cannot be setup in this manner and requires that PS min and PS max be at least 5-cm different, although you can used fixed EPAP in ASV mode, or variable EPAP in ASVauto mode. The Resmed does not have a backup rate setting and would target your 90-second moving average respiration rate.
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - soyjer - 08-06-2024
OK.
The AirCurve-10-ASV-Clinician-Setup-Guide only gives ranges for PS min/max (0-6/5-20), (same for the Aircurve 11 ASV) and doesn't mention that they must be 5 apart, and so I had assumed that PS min/max could be set to be equal (at either 5/5 or 6/6).
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - Sleeptechmaster - 08-06-2024
There would be no way to set a bipap st type machine to anyway be similar to an ASV machine. They are very different in many ways.
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - soyjer - 08-06-2024
(08-06-2024, 05:37 AM)Sleeptechmaster Wrote: There would be no way to set a bipap st type machine to anyway be similar to an ASV machine. They are very different in many ways.
I realize that you can't set a bipap st type machine to anyway be similar to an ASV machine, because the bipap st lacks the software... I was speaking of setting up an ASV machine to simulate a BiPAP ST machine.
If the ASV machine's algorithm is forced to choose between only two pressures, EPAP=10 and IPAP=15, as I described above, then why would it not be behaving exactly like a BiPAP ST machine behaves?
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - SarcasticDave94 - 08-06-2024
Supposing that the ResMed ASV or Philips Respironics Auto SV accept the settings to mimic ST, it will still respond to events like ASV or Auto SV not ST. So no, these won't substitute one for the other.
RE: Can use ASV machine as Bipap S/T machine? - soyjer - 08-06-2024
(08-06-2024, 11:17 AM)SarcasticDave94 Wrote: Supposing that the ResMed ASV or Philips Respironics Auto SV accept the settings to mimic ST, it will still respond to events like ASV or Auto SV not ST. So no, these won't substitute one for the other.
In what way would the Dreamstation AutoSV (ASV machine) behave differently than a Dreamstation BIPAP S/T, with the Dreamstation AutoSV set such that EPAPmin = EPAPmax, and PSmin = PSmax, and using same BPM, Rise Time, and Ti settings?
To my thinking, when you exhale, it would only be allowed to deliver the single [EPAPmin = EPAPmax] pressure, and when you inhale, it would only be allowed to deliver the single [(EPAPmin = EPAPmax) + (PSmin = PSmax)] pressure.
I asked my sleep study provider this question this morning, and, to my surprise, they said that during a shortage of Dreamstation BIPAP S/T machines, they were using the Dreamstation AutoSV (ASV machine) for their BIPAP S/T sleep studies, using the settings method above.
As mentioned in a previous comment above, it's apparently true that the Aircurve 10 ASV can NOT exactly simulate a BIPAP S/T, because it won't allow the PSmax setting to be less than 5 cm above PSmin.