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[Equipment] Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - Printable Version

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Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - Apnea_GM - 12-30-2013

The Machines Offered by the DME I am working with are listed below.

Comparing the list of Machines to the recommended and not recommended list(from a previous post), it looks like I need the APAP Autoset if it is an S9.

The list they have is as follows:
Thanks
Resperonics
CPAP 220
CPAP 460
APAP 560
ABiPAP 600

RESMEDS
CPAP S9 Escape
CPAP Elite
APAP Autoset

Fisher
APAP
CPAP

Any thoughts/experiences with these models would be helpful.

Thank you!




RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - Airstream - 12-30-2013

Hi: I'm not sure if the board has ever done a survey on what machines people are using, but I know there are many S9 Autoset users here and they seem to like theirs as I do mine.
I am going on 4 years of trouble-free use. I like that it is very quiet and stores sleep data that you can download yourself.
The only improvement I wish they would make is a dimmer switch for the lighted screen. I think it stays on too long before going out. The S9 would be my choice, but someone may recommend other machines on the list as well.

RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - trish6hundred - 12-30-2013

Hi Apnea_GM,
Avoid the Resmed s9Escape model because it is not data-capable.
The S9Autoset is a fully data-capable machine and there are some Respironics models that are as well.
Good luck with the decision on your new machine.

RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - Surly - 12-30-2013

I have used both the Resmed S9 Autoset and Philips Respironics Remstar Auto 560. Both are top notch APAP devices and most needing APAP would do well with either.

The S9 is arguably a better looking machine with its' large colour LCD, and provides better on screen data than the 560. On the other hand the 560 records more computer viewable data via its' recordable data card than the S9.

Although I'll be in the significant minority here, my personal preference is for the 560. After using an S9 for 20 months I recently undertook a follow up sleep study using a 560 and found that I felt significantly better rested the following day than usual despite my restless night before in the sleep lab. For that reason I purchased a 560 and although I'm only 11 days in on it, those 11 days are the best I've experienced in my almost 13 years of CPAP. I guess I must be one of the relative few that actually benefits from one algorithm over another.


RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - PollCat - 12-30-2013

As much as I love to create polls/surveys, getting users to participate is equivalent to trying to pull teeth with a piece of spaghetti! Theoretically, we could query the members' profile data to get this information; but, I doubt that SuperSleeper has the time to do so and I do not have that kind of access into the system.

As far as my personal experience goes, I'm in agreement with Airstream about the S9 Autoset. Though, I do not have any problem with the screen brightness since my machine sits under the bed.

RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - robysue - 12-30-2013

My comments about the machines are in RED
(12-30-2013, 04:09 PM)Apnea_GM Wrote: The Machines Offered by the DME I am working with are listed below.

Comparing the list of Machines to the recommended and not recommended list(from a previous post), it looks like I need the APAP Autoset if it is an S9.

The list they have is as follows:
Thanks
Resperonics
CPAP 220 This is a brick that records no efficacy data or leak data. Do NOT get it.

CPAP 460 This is a fixed pressure machine that records full efficacy data including AHI and leak data. It's ok to accept this machine, but be aware that it will only provide 30 days of trial APAP mode.

APAP 560 This is an Auto CPAP machine that records full efficacy data including AHI and leak data. It is a full-fledged APAP that can be run in Auto mode indefinitely. It can also be set to run in CPAP mode.

ABiPAP 600 I suspect you mean Model 660?? The BiPAP Pro (model 660) requires a different prescription than the other models. BiPAPs are NOT billed under the same code as CPAPs and APAPs. if your prescription is for a bi-level machine, then what you need to know about this particular bi-level is that it is a fixed pressure bi-level. There will be a fixed IPAP and a fixed EPAP on this machine.


RESMEDS
CPAP S9 Escape This is a brick that records no efficacy data or leak data. Do NOT get it.

CPAP Elite This is a fixed pressure machine that records full efficacy data including AHI and leak data. It's ok to accept this machine

APAP Autoset This is an Auto CPAP machine that records full efficacy data including AHI and leak data. It is a full-fledged APAP that can be run in Auto mode indefinitely. It can also be set to run in CPAP mode.


Fisher
APAP Are you talking about the ICON Auto? Or are you talking about a SleepStyle Auto? It makes a difference

CPAP Are you talking about the ICON Novo[/i] or the ICON [b]Premo? Or are you talking about a SleepStyle CPAP of some sort? It makes a difference

Any thoughts/experiences with these models would be helpful.

Thank you!
In general, it is much harder to find software that works with the Fisher machines if you are wanting monitor your therapy. So keep that in mind.

I've written pretty detailed comparison of the Respironics System One APAP (model 560) and the Resmed S9 AutoSet. You can read it at http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Holden-versus-Ford-ResMed-v-Philips-Respironics?pid=49331#pid49331



RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - zonk - 12-30-2013

Stick with Phillips Respironcis System One (PRS1) or Resmed S9

PRS1
Avoid model number below 460, theses machine only tells you how many hours using the machine each night and tells you or/and your doctor nothing in terms how the treatment is working .. not data capable machines
Models numbers 460 and above are data capable machines. Model number printed on the label affixed at the bottom of the machine
APAP ... PRS1 REMStar Auto 560
PRS1 comparison guide http://www.healthcare.philips.com/asset.aspx?alt=&p=http://www.healthcare.philips.com/pwc_hc/us_en/homehealth/sleep/systemone/pdf/systemone-comparison-guide.pdf

Resmed S9
Avoid any machine with Escape in the name
Model name printed next to on/off button
APAP ... S9 AutoSet (not Escape Auto)
S9 specification guide http://www.resmed.com/us/products/s9_series/s9-series.html?nc=dealers

Edit: PRS1
Avoid SE in the name
Machines with 60 in the number denote 60 series machines with the heated hose option
50 number denote 50 series machine without the heated hose option (prior to 60 series machines)

RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - PaulaO2 - 12-30-2013

Or just point the OP to this:

http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php?title=Archangle:Machine_Choices

RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - robysue - 12-30-2013

Here's some additional information concerning the different models of CPAP that are out there that I wrote a while back on a different forum. I've taken the time to edit and update the post so that it reflects what's currently out there in the marketplace

Important Information About the Four Most Commonly Used Brands of CPAP/APAP Machines in the US

NOTE: The information about the DeVilbiss IntelliPAPs is VERY INCOMPLETE since I have not had a chance to fully edit this since adding them to the lists in the first part of the post. I have not yet had a chance to write anything about their on-board data, their software (including the SmartCode), or their data card (and the need for an add-on "module". If there are any DeVilbiss users out there who can add this information to this thread, please write a response so I can add it to this post.

For the four most common brands of xPAP equipment here's what you need to know about their most RECENT lines of machines:
  • Full Efficacy Data Machines:
    • Resmed: The S9 Elite CPAP with EPR and the S9 AutoSet CPAP
    • Resprionics: The System One Series 60 REMstar Pro CPAP with C-Flex Plus (model 460) and the System One Series 60 REMstar Auto CPAP with A-Flex (model 560)
    • Fisher & Paykel: The Icon Premo CPAP and the Icon Auto CPAP
    • DeVilbiss: The IntelliPAP Standard Plus with SmartFlex and the IntelliPAP AutoAdjust with SmartFlex
  • Only Compliance Data Machines:
    • Resmed: The S9 Escape CPAP with EPR and the S9 Escape Auto CPAP
    • Resprionics: The System One Series 60 REMstar Plus CPAP with C-Flex (model 260) and the System One REMStar 60 Series SE CPAP Machine (model 220)
    • Fisher & Paykel: The Icon Novo
    • DeVilbiss: The IntelliPAP Standard


Important Notes:

1) It is best to hold out for a full efficacy data machine right from the start. As soon as you accept a brick that records only compliance data, you will have a mess on your hands if you later try to upgrade it to a full efficacy data machine. So if a DME contacts you (because the sleep doctor's office sent the script) and makes an appointment to set up the equipment and then shows up with a compliance-only brick of a CPAP, REFUSE delivery of the machine. Yes, they will tell you, "This is exactly what the doctor ordered." But YOU are paying for the machine (through your co-pay and your insurance company's money) and you are under NO obligation to "accept" a machine that you believe will be detrimental to your health in the long run. Politely inform them that you will only accept <fill in list of machines that you find acceptable> and that if they are unwilling or unable to provide you with such a machine, you will take your business to a different DME.

2) The naming of two of the Resprionics System One straight CPAPs is particularly confusing:
  • The System One REMstar Pro CPAP with C-Flex Plus (model 460) IS a full data machine, but
  • The System One REMstar Plus CPAP with C-Flex (model 260) IS NOT a full data machine.

3) Technically the Resmed Escape Auto is not quite a "only compliance data" machine because it does give a minimum amount of data beyond the number of hours used. But not enough additional data for it to be considered a full data machine. If the choice is between the S9 Elite and the S9 Escape Auto, you're better off with the Elite in my humble opinion.


4) On-board Data: Each brand of machine has its own select set of data can be viewed directly off the machine's LCD.
  • The Resmed S9 AutoSet and Elite have by far the best on-board LCD data of any of these machines since their LCDs will let you see all of the following: AHI, AI, CAI (from which you can easily compute OAI and HI); 95% Unintentional Leak rate; 95% Pressure Setting (AutoSet only); and hours used (of course). You can also easily change the reporting period from 1 day to 1 week to 1 month to 3 months to 6 months to one year.
  • The newest full data Resprionics Series 60 System One machines is limited to 1, 7, and 30 averages for AHI that are not broken down by type and 1, 7, and 30 averages for "Percentage time spent in Large Leak." That Large Leak data is useless in my humble opinion----in part because Resprionics leaves the definition of Large Leak undefined and in part because a Large Leak has to last an awfully long time to show up in a 7-day average (let alone a 30-day average).
  • s near as I can tell (based on information in other apnea forums that I read), the full data F&P Icons have the following data available through the LCD: 1, 7, and 30 day figures for AHI that are not broken down into type), leak rate, and the 90% pressure level and SenseAwake stats for the Icon Auto.
  • The full data DeVilbiss IntelliPAPs use some kind of web-based "code" that you enter into an appropriate site every morning to look at your data---if I understand correctly from what I've read about these machines. Because of this web-based "code", it's not clear to me what data is immediately available from the machine's LCD itself.
NOTE: I've used both an S9 AutoSet and a System One BiPAP Auto so I know those machines really well and speak from direct experience. I am not directly experienced with the F&P Icons or the DeVilbass IntelliPAPs, so the information about those machines is based on what I've read both hear and on other forums. If you use one of these machines and can provide me with more accurate information, I'd appreciate it.


5) Official Software: Each of the major brands has its own proprietary software for analyzing the data the machine records. For the most part, these software packages are aimed at DMEs and doctor's offices.
  • The Resmed S9 needs ResScan, which can be downloaded for free once you know where to find it.
  • The PR System One needs Encore Basic or Encore Pro, which can be downloaded for free once you know where to find it.
  • The F&P Icon uses InfoSmart, which appears to be aimed at clinics and sleep doctor offices. I have no information about how a user might find and install the InfoSmart software for their Icon machine. From what I've read here and elsewhere, no-one has been able to find a version of InfoSmart to install on their own computer and the software does not seem to be sold to patients.
  • I am not sure I fully understand how the DeVilbiss IntelliPAP records data to be analyzed on a computer rather than through its web-based code. As I understand it, you have to purchase an additional module with an SD card slot to hook onto the back of the DeVilbiss IntelliPAP to order to record the data so that you can look at it in the official DeVilbiss SmartLink Version 2 Software. You can buy the data module bundled with the SmartLink Software from Supplier #1 on the apneaboard on-line supplier's list.


6) SleepyHead Software: SleepyHead can be used with the following machines:
  • The full data ResMed S9 machines
  • The full data Philips Respironics System One machines (both current Series 60 and the older Series 50 machines). The Series 60 System One machines require SleepyHead 0.9.3 (or higher) on a PC. On a mac you have to install SleepyHead 0.9.2 and then you have to install a patch that provides support for the Series 60 System One machines.
  • The full data DeVilbiss IntelliPAP machines. DeVilbiss IntelliPAPs require SleepyHead 0.9.3 (or higher) on a PC. I don't know if the Mac patch for SleepyHead 0.9.2 allows a Mac-based SleepyHead to read the data from the DeVilbiss IntelliPAPs. I also don't know if you have to have the data module installed before you can use SleepyHead to analyze the IntelliPAPs data.
SleepyHead will not yet work with the full data F&P Icons, but JediMark is working on providing support for those models.


7) Data cards: The Resmed S9 and the Respironics System One both use standard SD cards for the data that are inserted directly into the back of the blower unit. The F&P Icon uses a SmartStick. The Devilbiss IntelliPAP uses a standard SD card, but it also appears that you also need an optional data module attached to its back before the IntelliPAP can write the data to the SD card.

8) Prices in the US: If you are purchasing the CPAP with insurance dollars, the contract between the DME and the insurance company will determine the price. And your share of the cost will likely be exactly the same regardless of which brand and model you wind up purchasing. If you are buying new equipment totally out-of-pocket, the cost of the machine will vary considerably from brand to brand and from model to model. In general, compliance-data bricks cost less than full efficacy data machines from the same manufacturer. And APAPs tend to cost more than full efficacy data CPAPs do. Supplier #1's prices currently seem to be the lowest (sometimes by far) of the on-line suppliers on the apneaboard supplier list at http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-CPAP-Supplier-List. And on 12/30/2013, at Supplier #1, the prices for both the blower unit and the heated humidifier for the current models from the four most commonly used brands are:
  • Resmed: Prices range from $758 for the bare bones, compliance data S9 Escape brick to $833 for top of the line, full efficacy data S9 AutoSet.
  • Respironics: Prices range from $482.80 for the bare bones, compliance data System One REMStar 60 Series SE CPAP (model 220) brick to $737.80 for the top of the line, full efficacy data System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP
  • F & P: Prices range from $549 for the middle of the line, full efficacy data fixed pressure ICON Premo CPAP to $595 for the top of the line, full efficacy data ICON Auto CPAP.
  • DeVilbiss: Prices range from $475 for the bare bones, compliance data IntelliPAP Standard CPAP brick to $640 for the top of the line, full efficacy data IntelliPAP AutoAdjust machine.
NOTES: 1) Supplier #1 does not sell the ICON Novo right now.
2) Supplier #1 currently has the Devilbiss heated humidifiers on sale. The prices quoted above use the non-sale price of the humidifer unit.

RE: Machines Offered by DME - anyone have experience with these? - Airstream - 12-30-2013

(12-30-2013, 04:48 PM)Surly Wrote: I have used both the Resmed S9 Autoset and Philips Respironics Remstar Auto 560. Both are top notch APAP devices and most needing APAP would do well with either.
Surly, having used both, is the Respironics as as quiet as the S9? That's an important factor for many people.