New guy with questions about buying a used machine

[Mark Douglas]

Hello All.

I have had OSA for many years (self diagnosed via audio recording) and finally got around to sleep studies 4 and 2 yrs ago. Both times my financial situation changed and prevented me from getting a machine and frankly I dislike the whole idea to begin with so I wasn't highly motivated..... I resolved to loose weight but that isn't happening - quite possibly from complications of the OSA. Vicious circle. I live depending on the time of year at sea level in a boat or around 1000msl - Midwest and Florida and down island. Shrink says he has seen near miracles in mental health from using a CPAP machine. Bottom line is I gotta do it. *Oh BTW I'm an independent old cuss. So after research here and elsewhere it looks to me like I want a ResMed S9 autoset with H5i. Would like the A10 but do not want the cellular data link. See * above. I have installed an old .deb of SleepyHead on my linux box just to look at it.

I have read the used equipment thread and concluded there is no reason I ought not buy a used machine off craigslist and see what happens but would like to hear from anyone who has gone this route.

Thanks if you read this far

[DariaVader]

CL has good deals and bad deals... as you probably already know. Arm yourself with the knowledge of how to bring up total machine hours on whatever model you are checking out to keep sellers honest, and check out the deals @ Supplier #2... People seem to have good experiences there. Keep in mind that the Respironics brand machines run on 12v, might suit you better than the 24v Resmed, Bonus, they tend to run slightly cheaper as well; but certainly go for a data-capable auto since you are an independent old cuss

[trish6hundred]

Hi Mark,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
You might check with Supplier #2 here on the board, (suppliers list is at the top of each page.)
They have good deals on either gently-used or open-box machines.
Hang in there for more responses to your post and much success to you as you start CPAP therapy.

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I have bought three machines off CL - all VERY low time machines. I kind of watch to see what comes through over time. How much blower time are you willing to consider on a machine? I am thinking there are a lot of machines out there that get bought on insurance and then folks just quit using them after a few months, if ever.

CL machines:
First was a DeVillbiss Intellipap Auto (still a current model), which, IIRC, had like 12 hours blower time on it. The DeVillbiss, IMHO, is a VERY under-appreciated auto. It is less than $500 brand spanking new. It has built in data reporting, but it is clunky and while more than jut compliance, it is not the breath-by-breath data you get with the Resmed or Respironics data capable machines. Unless you also buy the add-on card module, and then, I think, you should be just as good to go. This was at a local pawn shop and I ended up paying like $125.

The second one I bought off CL was a Respironics System One Auto 560 (still a current model) that had been run 36 minutes total. They guy was asking $500 and i offered him $100 less. That's what I bought it for. Which was $200-300 less than a new one would have been.

The last one was a Z-1 straight pressure CPAP. I am planning on listing it back on CL sometime soon. It had a reported 60ish number of hours on it - the Z-1 does not have an involatile hour meter so I am having to take the guys word that he oly put 7 nights on it during a cruise. I used it about 20ish hours over three nights. It was loud and I decided to upgrade to a new S-8 AutoSet, new old stock (discussed later), as my travel machine.

Some notes on CL dealings. As always, pay attention to your personal safety when conducting a face to face transaction - well lit, high traffic, public place etc. Make sure that the machine was not used in a smoking household. You can NEVER EVER get that smell out. Unless you are, or have a smoker in the house, and it doesn't bother you. Take an inverter or some other power source with you if you are meting in a parking lot - because you want to actually start the machine up and run it. This also allows you to check the total hours so you know you are not getting the short end of the stick. Point numero threeo: Success in finding a unit on CL is to a large extent dependent on how close you live to a big city. Simple numbers - more are available in large metro areas than smaller metro areas or rural towns. Example: Dallas CL has 31 CPAPs of various configuration and age listed this evening; Shreveport, LA has 13; Tyler, TX - halfway between the two cities on I-20, has 7 listed.

Supplier #2 is excellent to deal with, but as a licensed DME or respiratory therapist, would require an Rx of some sort I would think. I do know from first-hand, personal experience that he has a stock of new-in-box, never opened S-8 AutoSet IIs that are still a hell of a machine even if they are not current production models (but I don't think they are still making S-9s either (?)). These units he is selling for less than $399 and that comes with a proprietary data stick - you would require a reader and would have to use the ResScan software for data, I think. I don't believe that Sleepyhead supports the S-8? Humidifier not included and the humidification on the S-8 series II is not as advanced as on the S-9. However, this is a 12 V machine and does not require an external power brick to run off 120-24 V AC.

Anyhow - them's my two cents.

OMM

[player]

The Resmed A10 is a nice unit. You can turn off the cell phone by going into airplane mode. If you want to completely disable it there is a thread giving clear photos and instructions on how to disconnect it internally.

[archangle]

Would like the A10 but do not want the cellular data link. See * above. I have installed an old .deb of SleepyHead on my linux box just to look at it.

If you buy it used, why do you care about the cell data? Even if big brother is watching, they think they're watching the guy who sold it to you. While they could, in theory, use direction finding to figure out your location, it's really unlikely they'd do that.

They might update your software via the cell modem. It's just barely possible they'd reprogram it back to it's "official" prescription, but that's pretty unlikely, too.

However, "airplane" mode works, it just puts a message up on the display asking if you want to turn airplane mode off, but it doesn't cause any problems.

[Mark Douglas]

Would like the A10 but do not want the cellular data link. See * above. I have installed an old .deb of SleepyHead on my linux box just to look at it.

If you buy it used, why do you care about the cell data? Even if big brother is watching, they think they're watching the guy who sold it to you. While they could, in theory, use direction finding to figure out your location, it's really unlikely they'd do that.

1-I go lots of places there won't be cellular service. If the integrated cellular modem works like a cell phone and if it cannot connect it will ramp up its transmit power thereby increasing power demand. Amps are precious on a sailboat.
2-My understanding is one must have a Rx to purchase such a machine. If this is correct why would I want to broadcast my possession of an "illegal" device? With the continual intrusion and data integration by gvts into my life why would I want to help them?


They might update your software via the cell modem. It's just barely possible they'd reprogram it back to it's "official" prescription, but that's pretty unlikely, too.

If its not there is not an issue.

However, "airplane" mode works, it just puts a message up on the display asking if you want to turn airplane mode off, but it doesn't cause any problems.

Is this a persistent change or will it default to normal mode with every power interruption?

[Mark Douglas]

Due to unrelenting sinus drainage I normally try to sleep on my stomach so I do not cough and choke. I also tend to thrash around a lot.

Is there any chance the machine will help with either of these issues.

The deeper I get into fixing myself, and having learned if you want good health care you are likely going to have to provide for yourself to the extent possible it is interesting how one thing effects others.

>>>>>>> I have slowly become overweight past 20 yrs or more (recently learned I have Hashimoto's disease) which aggravates acid reflux which aggravates sinus problems which makes it difficult to sleep which causes fatigue and depression which makes loosing weight difficult and and sleeping on stomach to avoid coughing from sinus drainage and choking causes spinal problems and acid reflux and said extra weight increases the likelihood of OSA and the OSA >>>>>>>

any encouraging words here would be much appreciated

[archangle]

1-I go lots of places there won't be cellular service. If the integrated cellular modem works like a cell phone and if it cannot connect it will ramp up its transmit power thereby increasing power demand. Amps are precious on a sailboat.
2-My understanding is one must have a Rx to purchase such a machine. If this is correct why would I want to broadcast my possession of an "illegal" device? With the continual intrusion and data integration by gvts into my life why would I want to help them?
3-Is this a persistent change or will it default to normal mode with every power interruption?

1 - The CPAP machine draws around 10 watts for the blower even if you don't use the humidifier. The cell modem might go as high as 1 or 2 watts, but it only connects to the network for a minute or two once a day. Even if it's out of range and keeps trying to connect, it would probably only retry every few minutes and would send out a few short transmissions and then give up.

Look at the size of the battery in your cell phone that will run your cell phone for a day or two, even in a rural area, and compare that to the size of a battery you need to run your CPAP.

2 - I generally approve of paranoia. However, you need to have some degree of reasonableness in what you're afraid of, or you'll be hiding under your bed with a tinfoil hat all the time.

There's not a lot of profit or political will for big brother going after "illegal" CPAP buyers. They'd need to work with the DME's check on whose prescription is still valid, etc. Then they'd have to trust the DME's recordkeeping, keep track of when someone moves from one DME to another, etc. They'd need to handle the cases where someone buys a CPAP from one DME, then quits going to that DME, but keeps using the CPAP machine. They'd need to figure out that the machine that Joe Blow bought is now being used by John Doe. Then you'd need to figure out that John Doe didn't actually have a legal prescription for CPAP.

After a few cases of busting down the wrong door looking for illegal CPAP addicts, the bad publicity would be so bad, they'd give it up.

Heck, the police won't even bother to go and hunt down muggers who steal people's cell phones.

If you're that concerned about this issue, you should probably not participate in this web site.

3 - My understanding is that it's a permanent change, even across power outages, unless you press the buttons on the machine to turn it back on. However, it might not be that difficult to accidentally hit a button and answer "yes" when it's asking you if you want to turn airplane mode off.

[archangle]

Due to unrelenting sinus drainage I normally try to sleep on my stomach so I do not cough and choke. I also tend to thrash around a lot.

Is there any chance the machine will help with either of these issues.

It might, but it's far from a sure bet.

I find the pressure or something about CPAP helps my sinuses. Not everyone does.

Untreated apnea can make you cough, choke, and thrash around. CPAP cures this for some people, not for others. It's possible apnea isn't the cause of those problems in your case.