Airsense10 bugged?

[natyprueba]

Airsense10 bugged?

Hi everyone.

I have been using the airsense10 for almost 3 months. I am still in the learning + slope with the machine and the therapy. During this time I have gotten 3 days with condensation in my hose. Today the condensation was in the mask too. It is not very funny because the machine begins to play something similar to the Ravel' s bolero for ever: pap, pap,pap,pap. It is loud enough to wake my wife!!!! I think that the origin of the noise is a valve (flapper) that is in the 90 degrees input fitting, where yo connect the air hose. I think that the condensate water drops don't allow the flapper to close.
I have made a strong bond with the machine and now I can not sleep with out the machine. My wife says that with out the machine I behave the same way that a sleeping baby when you pull out the pacifier.
I wrote down this post because I don't know where to find an answer for the real way that the humidity and temperature settings work and I don't think that I can get a machine schematic either. I am seriously thinking in tear down the machine and make the schematic.

During the last 3 weeks I have been messing with 2 settings:
-Humidity.
-Tube temperature.
Very good results AHI < 5 almost every day.

Humidity: As high that I set the humidity, the better the AHI, the high humidity limit is: too high humidity give me asthma, my sinusitis gets worst and I got condensation in the hose.
Temperature: A 70 Fahrenheit degrees is not enough to avoid condensation.

The problem that I see is that these settings are open loops, you set the humidity and the machine delivers the amount of water that she “thinks” is good for this setting meaning that in case of the air humidity the real amount of water in the air that you get in your lungs is the sum of the humidity that you set in the machine + the air humidity. I live close to the 5 Great Lakes in NY state, and in summer season the air humidity can be as high as 100%, inside the bedroom because the air conditioner the RH could go as high as 70% as it was when the machine awake me today.

I think that in the temperature setting is the same thing. You set the temperature and the machine deliver a certain amount of current to the heating elements that she thinks is OK for keep this temperature. The real thing is that the air temperature that you breath is up to the sum of your machine setting +/- air temperature+ the increased temperature when you compress the air.

The machine design could be with a control loop with feedback, but it isn't. It is what it is, a we most accommodate to it. I must watch the weather forecast before go to sleep and set the machine humidity with the forecast numbers and set the a/c. In 2 more months I am going to need the heaters in the bedroom and the problem will be another: very low HR (around 20-25 %) and the bedroom temperature will drop from 75-80 to 70 Fahrenheit degrees.

I am willing to hear from you, because I can be wrong.

[RedSkip]

I found the higher the humidity level the more "noise" i heard. It's generally when i breath though and not a valve within the machine. The noise i head with the P10 is the water trying to be forced out of the pillow on exhale causing a loud "popping" noises. it definitely woke me up from a dead sleep.

I've turned my humidity down as well to eliminate the water being generated. I wouldn't think that humidity would help lower AHI's, but i'm not an expert nor a doctor.

Perhaps turn the humidity down? (Provide less water to the hose)
Turn the hose temp up? (Keep the water in vapor form until you breath it in.)
Hose wrap? (keeps the hose warm to prevent water dropping out)

My 0.02, take it for what's it's worth - not much, ha.

Skip.

[Sleeprider]

I am using the following settings that you might want to try as a starting point:

Climate control: Manual
Tube Temp: 77
Humidity level: 4

It's comfortable, quiet and always works without condensation. In winter I increase tube temp to 80 and increase humidity to 5. Hope this helps.

[cands]

I've found the auto setting for humidity to be good. My understanding is that delivers a constant humidity based on the ambient conditions. Is that right?

Water usage is almost a full tank for 8.5 hours.

The climateline hose has a temperature sensor at the mask end. Is this not the feedback mechanism you said was not there?

When I use my Amara View mask, I need to raise the temperature setting a little, due to the drop in temperature caused by the small length of unheated tube attached to the View.

It is winter at the moment. The bedroom temperature is 14 (58F).
I have the tube temperature set to 29 (85F) for the Amara View or 28 for the Simplus.

[icyura10]

In April, when the air humidity was low, I used the humidifier.

Since late June, when the humidity rolled in (and it's sitll here.. I mean, I usually can't take a shower to get dry) I've had to turn the humidifier completely off... as I kept drowning.

I'll presume in September or October and certainly November, I'll need to reactivate the Humidifier...

I dunno if this helps you or snot.. but it's my story n' I'm stickin' with it! n' try not to drown!

[natyprueba]

Hi everybody.

Thank you for your posts.

Sleeprider.

-I partially followed your advice: tube temperature: 77 Fahrenheit degrees, but humidity 5.
It worked with out condensation. Not outside raining last night.

Sands.

-I doubt that the airsense10 got a humidity sensor with a controller, with a Thyristor or Triac to control the current to the heater element and regulate the amount of evaporate water. I think that the machine delivers a current based in your humidity setting with out feedback. What you say will be ideal.
I have seen that I got trouble with the humidity setting when there is high humidity in my bedroom. That happens sometimes when the a/c is off, it is raining and I am in deep sleep phase. The RH in my bedroom can go as high as 90% and the condensation problem begins to happen.

-Same thing applied for tube temperature: there is not a temperature sensor in the tube to begin the feedback lace. For that, in cool bedrooms we need to wrap the hose.

Redskip.

-Your mask is different to my mask. My mask is a FFM. The source of noise can be different.
-The high humidity, in my case, help me to low the AHI, the dry mouth and the sinusitis. The high limit is asthma. If it is too much humidity I got asthma and condensation in the hose.
-Hose wrap is a very good advice for next winter.

I am not a Dr. either. Not medical education of any kind. Trying to learn fast, because I understood that this is for ever. As fast that I learn and can got my AHI really low everyday, as better I will feel and will improve my quality of life.

Thanks everybody for your answers.

[natyprueba]

Thank you for your replies.

icyiura10.

-I don't know how is the weather in the galactic zone where you are traveling right now. It looks very similar to my weather in NY state close to Canada.
-About your settings, if you feel good and are happy with them, keep going.
-You got a different machine, even is another brand, that means for me that I must take your setting in a very conservative way. Every machine is unique in design and they behave in different ways, the SH reports are different (as our illnesses and we are). What is good for you, maybe will not be good for me.

What I learn in my case until now is:

-High leaks = higher AHI + higher snoring.
-Low humidity= very dry mouth and nose. Higher AHI. Don't feel very good in the morning.
-High tension in mask straps is very good to avoid leaks and lower the AHI, lower snoring, but got my skin irritated and sore.
-High humidity= asthma + hose and mask condensation. With humidity 5 or 6 I feel very nice but with humidity=6, I got hose condensation. I must try the hose wrap. I increased my hose temperature to 78 Fahrenheit.
-Higher pressure = less AHI, I don't now the top limit to my pressure. Now I am in 12 cms. Of water. Beginning in 7 cms. Of water. Not ramp. Still I got where to play.
I have not begun to play with my pressure. After I got better results with the hose parameters I will begin with the pressure. I am thinking in 8-15 with ramp.
I don't have medical education and I am learning with the machine kicking my ass. It is call in more polite mode “trial and error”.

canns.

I don't think we got a thermal resistance in the end of the hose for air temperature sample. If that be the case, we will have available the graphic Air temperature vs. time and we wouldn't have condensation in the hoses or we won't need hose wraps. If we really got this sensor, the machine design is a piece of s..t.

[PaytonA]

I can not speak for the A10 climateline hose but the S9 version does have a temp sensor just before the mask connector and mine works quite well.

As far as strap tension, you can buy or make a strap wrap that should help if you need higher tension without having soreness and irritation. One member got child's socks and put a hole in the toe end and use those on the straps. Of course, now her children/grandchildren must go sockless because theirs keep disappearing. Or you could buy strap wraps from Padacheek online. They have some very nice ones.

As far as the automatic mode for the A10 climateline hose, Resmed admittedly made a mistake by programming the RH for auto mode to be 85%. The S9 climateline auto mode maintains 80% relative humidity with no rainout problems in auto mode that I am aware of (but I am an old fart and might have forgotten one or two).

Your attitude should be very helpful. You seem committed to making this work to your benefit.

Best Regards,

PaytonA

[cands]

Thank you for your replies.



canns.

I don't think we got a thermal resistance in the end of the hose for air temperature sample. If that be the case, we will have available the graphic Air temperature vs. time and we wouldn't have condensation in the hoses or we won't need hose wraps. If we really got this sensor, the machine design is a piece of s..t.

Hi there,
This is interesting stuff. (for a newbie but analytical hose-head like me )

From Resmed:

"Set and forget. Because the temperature sensor is built into the mask end of the ClimateLineAir tube, the temperature will remain at your preferred setting, regardless of changes in the temperature or humidity in the room. The tube temperature can be set to anywhere between 16 and 30°C. (60 and 86°F)."

I find that you do need to tweak the temp setting. I only have winter cold bedroom experience so far. We'll see what happens when summer comes. (It is incredibly dry and hot here in summer)
Even the Resmed site talks about hose wrapping, so I guess the system is not perfect! One of the sleep tech people told me to keep my hose tucked under the covers, but I find this impractical and uncomfortable. I prefer to leave it dangling over the side of the bed so it will move freely when I move.

I experimented with the manual humidity setting and ended up with spluttering hose and water spraying over my face
I think you really need to know what you are doing to do this. I have ordered a thermometer/hygrometer to keep in my bedroom so I can experiment further.

[cands]

Thank you for your replies.

-Higher pressure = less AHI, I don't now the top limit to my pressure. Now I am in 12 cms. Of water. Beginning in 7 cms. Of water. Not ramp. Still I got where to play.
I have not begun to play with my pressure. After I got better results with the hose parameters I will begin with the pressure. I am thinking in 8-15 with ramp.

My pre-treatment AHI was 58.9
My prescription is for 13cm fixed.
I have been using the machine for about 10 weeks.

I started out in auto mode 5-18 with 20 minute ramp.
My AHI immediately dropped to about 5.
I took ages to go to sleep and getting the mask tightness right was very difficult. Tightening the mask so that no leaks occur at 18 made it very uncomfortably tight at low pressures.

I very gradually increased the low pressure by .2 each night or two nights, shortened the ramp period to 5 minutes and also increased the starting pressure. As I got closer to optimal settings, I only made adjustments every 7 days.

My AHI has gradually dropped, first to about 2, then 1. Now it is averaging about 0.5

Now my pressure range is 12.6 to 17.2 (5 minute ramp start pressure 11)
Interestingly my low pressure setting is very close to my prescribed pressure of 13.
My Sleepyhead graph shows pressure close to 12.6 for most of the night, with peaks close to 17 during what I assume to be REM sleep.

I am very comfortable with the higher pressure

The information provided by other posters has been very helpful in deciding how to take control of my own treatment