CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia

[BadGoodDeb]

re: Lack of face masks. This article says that CDC okays cloth face masks if that's all that is available. A layer of flannel and a layer of cotton. I'm also including the pattern that they point to. https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/...O7K9MZ8i4s

I can't find how to include a PDF (the pattern) so here's the site which is also included in the above article. The FACE MASK pattern is 3rd down, for me. https://turbanproject.com/patterns

Here's an alternate view on "best fabrics" : https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best...OI3aIV4RRY

[Sheepish]

Here it is.


  Face Mask Instructions.pdf (Size: 418.26 KB / Downloads: 89)

[Cpapian]

Question here:  to jerryrig a xpap machine to do duty as a "field style" respirator ..... which machine would be better bi-pap or asv.  If you could get your hands on one and there was $100 difference in price ...... which would you choose?

[Cpapian]

I have appointed myself reader.  I don't have a lot of technical expertise to figure out how to jerryrig a machine, but I want to help and this is probably the best I can offer.

So, in that vein I found something on reddit.  Dr. Charlene Babcock  demonstrates how to get more out of your ventilator for 2 or 4 people.  She also outlines parameters under which it would work.  

https://reddit.app.link/20XhCDKz24


I found it on reddit on the corona virus canada discussion.

[SuperSleeper]

Here's the video in the link:





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClq978oohY

Keep in mind, this is for hospital ventilators.  She gives a caveat in the comments section:

"Please NOTE....patients need to be paralyzed for this to work..."

If and when we attempt to use our home CPAP machines to help in ventilation, we're not going to be able to sufficiently ensure that our home patients will be safely paralyzed... we don't have the drugs or equipment to make that happen, although some degree of sedation might be possible with drugs on hand.

But this is a great video that will hopefully save lives for those who are hospitalized.  I see it already has over 600,000 views, and it was just uploaded last week-- which is good visibility.

[SuperSleeper]

Of more importance for our purposes is her video here:


COVID-19 How To: Modify a Bi-Pap Machine into a Ventilator

"Physicians may not be aware of the V60 bi-pap machine's capacity to be utilized as a ventilator in a spontaneously breathing patient. This video demonstrates the adjustment of the Bi-pap Machine to be utilized as a ventilator. Given the COVID-19 Pandemic this may be useful information."






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bdMCeQHTxU

Looks like she's talking about that specific V60 hospital-grade BiPAP, so it's effectively venting out the expiratory air out through a filter.  Since our standard CPAP masks have air coming directly out of the mask itself... the issue of venting contaminated air into the room is a problem and since the air isn't coming out through a CPAP tube, it's going to be harder to filter it.  That's one of the reasons I suggested the expedient method of providing some degree of negative pressure in the room by using an open window (preferably near the patient's head) with a fan blowing air out of the room, so contaminated air does not get vented back into the house.

EDIT:  Unless one could figure out how to filter the air coming OUT of the CPAP mask vent ports.... ?  Ideas anyone?

[trailrider]

Hi SS,

If the patient is at home, it's irrelevant about the air. The home space is contaminated.
I'm going to read more.

Anyone know the specs on the HEPA filters used for our XPAP machines already and how they perform against a 0.1um virus? I'm thinking of doing a "shopping mask" for out and about. Make up a mask from cloth, add a pipe cleaner for nose bridge, and pocket for a hepa filter from my machine. I wish I could get the filter material as a sheet instead of tiny squares.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-...ronavirus/
This site has a lot of basics and performance comparisons of different materials.

Let sit and dry for four hours minimum, or two minutes in a microwave will kill off a virus apparently, according to the site from a NASA study. I'd like to see the reference though.

This would be a good crew here to work on solutions. Thanks for setting up this thread.

[2SleepBetta]

EDIT:  Unless one could figure out how to filter the air coming OUT of the CPAP mask vent ports.... ?  Ideas anyone?

Left to my resources on hand or relatively easily accessible--as of this moment with a V60 I'd learned how to use--I'd try putting a tent over the bed and rig a filter, duct and fan outside the tent to create negative pressure and pull air through a sealed-in-place filter area in the wall of the tent and discharge exhaust air through a window if filtering would not capture the virus to allow discharge inside as I assume. 


Maintaining temperature and sufficient means of access for patient care/needs are further details that  must be worked out as well as filter performance.


If patient is able to sit on side of bed, eat, and use commode, say, the tent and its sealing flap could be expanded to accommodate that. 


Having negative air pressure helps do necessary sealing of overlapped tent materials along necessary edges using thin materials like polyethylene sheeting painters use to mask doors, etc..

Special residential anti-allergen HVAC filters might work or be multiplied if the fan had enough power.


Just a top of head thought, not having been able to get here and read the thread above, having started right here the reading as much of it as I can now. This may have been suggested, but SS's (?) mention of the discharge challenge prompts taking a stab at it.

[SarcasticDave94]

Kudos to all that have searched for this info. I found something interesting in the Dr.'s info about the hookup of a 4 to 1 machine support split, and that is this 1 to 2 (or 4) way split has not been through a formal study but that it has been done successfully on humans. So note if you're concerned and want some study showing effectiveness, it likely does not exist. If you want someone to say it has been done effectively, there is that confirmation.

Maybe to some that may sound trivial and splitting hairs info given the potential dire circumstances. Regardless, I found that distinction interesting and felt I should point it out.

Best wishes to each that we don't find it necessary to be in the situation where this is needed. However, this is the info that's needed if it occurs.

[3rdMarDiv]

Kudos to all that have searched for this info. I found something interesting in the Dr.'s info about the hookup of a 4 to 1 machine support split, and that is this 1 to 2 (or 4) way split has not been through a formal study but that it has been done successfully on humans. So note if you're concerned and want some study showing effectiveness, it likely does not exist. If you want someone to say it has been done effectively, there is that confirmation.

Maybe to some that may sound trivial and splitting hairs info given the potential dire circumstances. Regardless, I found that distinction interesting and felt I should point it out.

Best wishes to each that we don't find it necessary to be in the situation where this is needed. However, this is the info that's needed if it occurs.

I don't think you are splitting hairs at all. I do think that if it is life and death and one guy near me is on a respirator and I'm not that I will remind someone that they could hook up at least two on one machines. I will offer to do it for them...LOL (Here Let Me Show Ya How)

I think that if they are going to release that information to the public or between medical facilities they should collect any data available. They also have the machine manufacturers and stats on the machine capabilities.

Basically, it's a machine and the capabilities are set and known. Too much research really isn't all that necessary. Does the machine have the horsepower to drag one or two trailers behind it.

Could 2, 3, 4 or 8 patients be delivered enough therapy by one machine to do an adequate job, great job, etc.

In fact, I'll bet that someone on this site could possibly state definitively if the implementation would work or not.