CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia

[Jdewane1]

You don't know how to change the pressure limits on your machine? Or, was the comment meaning something else? I have a Dreamstation autosv, I was having issues with the ramp not ramping for the correct duration. I called the help line ( the number I was given when I picked up the machine from the medical supply co.) In order for her to help me try and correct the ramp issue she gave me the directions to enter the main settings mode. It was just a series of buttons pushed while another button was held down. In that mode, anything could be changed,  min pressure, max pressure, ramp, alarms, etc. If they won't give you the sequence code, you could always try an internet search for it. Most *pap manufacturers have it in their manual for the machine, but the code/sequence is on a tear out page for the prescriber/DMS associate. Once they set your machine up, they tear it out so you can't change it.

[gcalhoun]

Respiration Therapist told me to use only distilled water.  Have done it for the last 6 years and never have cleaning issues with CPAP.

[bhindley]

Something to be aware of: the cough medicine/cough drop section/aisle of your local pharmacy store is a hot spot for viral infection. 

I discovered this the hard way a couple of weeks ago when I bought some zinc cough drop lozenges. I caught the flu. As a mobility challenged disabled senior citizen I had been a shut in for over a year. I go grocery shopping about once every two weeks, so I can pin down exactly when and where I was exposed to the flu. It was when I handled several packages of cough lozenges while comparing active ingredients. My flu symptoms began exactly 3-4 days from that visit and progressed and waned after 14 days. That is the flu. Textbook.

Think about it: sick people with flu symptoms will naturally go to this aisle and touch product.

[geauxdbl]

So I finally finished watching the "COVID-19 How To: Modify a Bi-Pap Machine into a Ventilator" video from much earlier in this thread, and the title is misleading. The machine they use is hospital grade, and then she sets it to AVAPS mode. It will, in that mode, have the power to breathe for you. It bears little resemblance to the bilevel machines that you and I use.

[Elizabethwa]

Hi, I am very new to all this, so my answer may be naeive.

I also believe it may get to a better than nothing situation when health system cannot cope.

What about 2 machines, one with Nasal pillow/cushion, one with mouth mask, I am new to cpap so not sure about masks for mouth only.

That would increase pressure overall if no major leaks?

[Clumpco]

Have you guys seen this?
https://ideas.4brad.com/creating-plan-re...entilators

Sorry if this is a repost, the search didn't turn up any references to the link.

[Nonsanity]

I haven’t read all thirty pages here, having only read to post #6, but I had a thought and wanted to drop it on more fertile ground—though I have little confidence in it.

I read that CPAP-class devices can’t achieve the higher pressures that ventilators run at. But going with the implied “use what you have” mentality this thread began with, I wondered if this could be worked around.

My idea was to hook one CPAP (non-bi-level, or at least with no pressure support enabled) to a bag or similar sealed enclosure, then put a second CPAP device inside the enclosure. Could pressure be stacked this way to increase the final pressure?

I’m thinking no, but there’s a small chance I could be wrong about this. It mainly depends on if the CPAP’s control software is measuring absolute or relative pressure. If measuring absolute pressure, the second device in the chain wouldn’t further pressurize its output.

But, I wonder, how do CPAP devices handle different ambient air pressures due to altitude? Does a CPAP device at sea level output the same pressure as one in a high mountain cabin? It would seem that relative pressure might be more important than absolute.

But even if a second device in such a pressure chain was fooled into generating a much higher final pressure, it still might not be capable of achieving it.

Still, I thought I’d throw the idea out there regardless. Someone with two CPAPs, a pressure sensor, plenty of duct tape, and time on their hands could try it, I suppose, if they thought there was a chance.

[SuperSleeper]

FOLKS, please listen.

I would suggest that you read this thread prior to replying.  You don't have to click on every link or watch every video, but please at least have a basic understanding of what prior members have already posted and discussed.  If you don't want to make the time to do that, then I would suggest that you may wish to reconsider posting in this thread.

We're getting numerous repeat "ideas" some of which have been addressed in past posts by knowledgeable members as being unworkable, unwise or even downright dangerous.  Then we get the same ideas posted yet again a day or two later, with those same knowledgeable members having to re-post their warnings yet again.  This makes the thread unwieldy and unreadable.

This thread was intended as a brain-storming session.  But the idea of brainstorming requires the participants have a working knowledge of what has transpired prior to them jumping into the thread.

If you want to participate in this thread, that is wonderful and that's what we want-- but at least have the courtesy to read what's gone on in prior posts before you yourself post.

I'm not getting "cranky" here, nor am I trying to censor anyone... and it's nothing personal-- I'm just trying to direct the conversation and keep it on-topic and non-repetitive because I've gotten a few complaints.

And again, if you don't have time to read through the thread, that's okay and fine.  We're not requiring everyone to participate in this thread.  But this thread is intended for people who think this issue is important enough, and is worthy of our time.  Many of us have been keeping up with all the posts in this thread right from the start..  Please, if you want to participate, read though the posts and then participate.

Again, not participating is always an option to you.

Thanks.

[SarcasticDave94]

Good day folks, I hope all on AB are doing well.

Let me cover a few of the entries/posts involving this potential need to ventilate yourself or a family member.

Using 2 machines is a very nice out of the box thought, but very likely your current, single, working CPAP, APAP, BPAP, VAuto, ST, ST-A, ASV is going to be able to meet your ventilation needs. Remember, we are dealing with a potential scenario of machine shortages for ventilators. Suppose we get in our minds that 2 machines is a must have situation. We each attempt to get a second unit we didn't already have. However, the medical world has began repurposing our CPAP class of machines for their medical center use. Voila, less machines. Am I saying this will happen. No, but we are each throwing out scenarios; some of these scenarios are realistic and others aren't quite realistic. I believe one machine is enough.

Those of us that are of a mind to do so, may want to consider using tap water for the time being. Distilled retail water isn't sterile or in itself going to prevent you from getting sick. Tap water for most of us is perfectly fine to use in your CPAP. Yes it likely means cleaning out your water tub more often to prevent mineral buildup.

If you choose not to use water but suffer from dry mouth, that can cause mouth health issues, as I recall. Personally, I would avoid dry mouth.

Water in the hose indicates either you need to increase the temperature in a heated hose, lower your humidity level, or you need a heated hose. You can also obtain a hose cover to insulate the hose from cooler rooms.

I have watched the one ventilator to 2 or 4 patients video clip. Remember this is a medical professional I think in an ER situation, recording things she is able to do in her ER setting. This does not mean we also must have this same/similar equipment. She's demonstrating an action of multiplying the hose connections of a machine to supply ventilation to 2 or 4 patients. There are relatively few of us here on the AB that requires a machine other than the CPAP class of machine. Those other machines like the ventilator in the video are in the NIV class. Machines like a ResMed Stellar (a bridge device between CPAP and NIV), Astral, or Philips Trilogy are true ventilators, and most here don't have one. OK that is accurate, but as I said, this is about using what you have.

On the aspect of getting sick due to being in a specific place to buy cough drops. I cannot dispute you got sick. However, visiting the cough drop aisle and having gotten sick is not enough evidence to state that specific spot in the store is what made you sick. Picking up an illness could have been at check-out, the general area of the store to or from the cough drop aisle, or pretty much anywhere along the route to get the cough drops at that store. Yes, you can say reasonably I got sick because I went to the store last Tuesday and it takes x number of days to get such and such illness. But I do not believe you can reasonably tell AB that you know exactly where you got sick. Why the importance of this? The virus situation is bad enough. Don't be one that adds to fear and anxiety.

Wrap-up: Caution is the key, mitigate the likelihood of getting sick by not touching your face with bare hands, wash your hands frequently, stay a safe distance from others, minimize going to stores to as few as possible. Be prepared and be safe.

[WMMack]

Hello CPAP ideas about corvid-19 pandemic and putting CPAP machines into service,

Here is a problem and a suggestion: The CPAP machine is an open system, the air that the patient exhales is released into the atmosphere, and will spread the corvid-19 virus.
Modifying the mask to isolate the machine and isolate the exhalation so it can be sterilized might t be the fastest way to get this machines into service. This might be done if the exhaled air is captured through installing two one-way valves within the patients mask.  The first one-way valve would protect the machine the second one way valve would direct the patient exhalation into a sterilization unit.

A home-made air sterilization unit might look like a water-pipe.  The exhalation air would bubble into a liquid bath before it is released into the atmosphere. The liquid bath might be a bleach solution ((even an acid bath??)) (suggestions should come from virus control medical experts). 

Another problem, the input air that the patient is given should also be free of the virus, this seems like a bigger challenge within a hospital crowded with corvid-19 patients. The inhalation air might be sterilized with filters and a SAFE non toxic sterilization unit, maybe with ultraviolet light.