Has anyone had success with ONLY a soft cervical collar?

[ranvanman]

Out of curiosity, my question is as the title states.

Someone on here suggested that I try it for my possibly mild apnea, so I ordered a few based on reviews from members here.

Last night I slept most of the night with a towel under my chin lifting it up. I think based on the numbers that when it stayed there, then it did help me. Not sure though.

Hence my question.

If there is any thread link that you can direct me to, that would be great.

[PaulaO2]

The problem with trying non-CPAP alternatives is there is no solid method to determine if it is working. You could use an oximeter but that alone is not enough, not really. You'd have to do five or more night s without a collar to get a baseline. Then go five or more nights with the collar to have data to compare. How you feel each night also counts, but there's just too many variables that go into how you "feel" after sleeping for it to be considered a true data point.

IF you know you snore with your mouth open
IF you know you sleep with your chin tucked
the PERHAPS it would work

[eok361]

going by the info in your avatar, it appears (to me) you haven't been diagnosed with OSA. You just think you may have "mild" SA.

if that's the case, then there isn't a baseline to check against, especially since most folks in here get their data from oscar.

if you are predominantly a back sleeper, then chin tucking could be causing your snoring. in that case, a cervical collar could certainly help.

would it completely eliminate it??? that would be for you to see. if you have been diagnosed with OSA, then trying something without a machine is a crap shoot, imho.

anecdotally, the cervical collar helps me. i start to sleep on my side, but inevitably end up on my back. it's just way more comfortable for me that way.

since adding the collar, my positional apneas have been diminished. some nights i don't even record any events at all. but i still use the machine. i was debating trying a night without the machine, but i'm sure my results wouldn't be nearly as good...or measurable at all.

the collar i use is the caldera releaf, btw.

[PeaceLoveAndPizza]

You could do a two night at-home sleep test. The first night without the collar, the second night with it.

I've tried a similar experiment using an Apple Watch. Given the watches limitations, objectively I do not see any significant data difference between nights with no CPAP and no collar compared to a night with no CPAP and wearing a collar. From a subjective "how do I feel" perspective, there is no real difference either. Qualitatively, I cannot say for certain that I experienced a better or worse nights sleep with either case. I do know that I snore without CPAP as it also shows on the Apple Watch noise chart.

It was something I was curious about as well so tried it using what tools I had available.

[BoxcarPete]

I tried it on recommendation from the members here when I posted my sleep study with zero nREM events and big clusters of events in each REM segment. The first night I slept really well and thought I had found a non-PAP alternative. Three or four more and it became clear it was insufficient to meet my needs on its own.

They're not expensive, there's nobody stopping you from trying it on your own. As stated above, you are unlikely to get any hard evidence on whether or not it's working.

[eok361]

so here's a good example of what effect the collar has on my sleep (with the machine on).

the initial stretch of time was recorded when i forgot to put the collar on before going to sleep. all the "activity" i believe are positional in nature. the second and third time sections are when i put the collar back on. 

i'm still not sure i'd want to try sleeping with just the collar and no machine, but i may give it a try some night.

[ICEMAN]

I would suggest, may be possible way test your theory? If trial wearing a Collar with machine, but simultaneously lower machine pressure? baby steps .5 pressure at time, while monitoring  for AHI Positive / Negative AHI, of variation?  Continue wearing Collar while also reducing pressure until stage begins some stage uncomfortable of low pressure yet AHI average has maintained to that previously required the higher pressures with machine and without collar?

[ranvanman]

Yes, I did decide to test this theory myself.

Having asked the question, I have been trying to answer it myself. The answer for me is that aq collar makes a huge difference for me in the number of drops I have during the night.

My total 3% drops went from 35 to 45 down to 2 to 5 during the seven hour night.

First of all, I have not been diagnosed with sleep apnea yet. I see a doctor tomorrow and will ask his opinion. My wife a very experienced RN says I may have it but does not think they will prescribe a CPAP machine. (BTW she is a home care nurse who sees alot of patients with CPAP and is shocked at how many do NOT use their machine despite having lung and heart conditions.

Second, I have tried ten different pillows (as in the kind you lay your head on) while also using the Velpeau collar (see below). I found that a pillow does make a difference. The alleged cervical pillows that have a dip in the center for your head to rest in actually made my numbers worse even if I had a collar around my neck. They forced me to sleep on my back, and then my drops increased. After trying ten pillows, I went back to my "old" pillow which is a memory foam pillow with no dip for the head. I am still going to try a couple of different kinds.

Third, I have tried some different cervical collars, and so far the Velpeau collar has worked for me so I probably won't try any more.

Fourth, my measuring tool has been my Wellue ring. Compared to my finger pulse ox and my other EMay reader, it is as accurate as they are. I like that it gives me a rating which may or may not mean anything, but still it is a nice way to rank my nights. For instance, prior to any collar, my rating was in the lower and mid 8 range. Now I consistently rate a 9.8 or 9.9 out of ten every night.

Since I asked this question and started this thread, I have used three different cervical collars and a towel.  All of them were better for me than nothing around my neck or under my chin. One stood out as best for me.

I tried a towel. I tucked it under my chin in a ball and and slept on my side. This helped and was what led me to trying a cervical collar.

I tried the Caldera collar, but it was not as stiff under my chin. I found myself pushing down on it in my sleep, and this caused my O2 to drop more often.  Although the number of drops was much less than without a collar, it was not as good as I wanted.

I then tried another collar (can't remember the name), but it was not as good as the Caldera.

Now I have been using the Velpeau collar for the past week and a half. It is stiffer and has been a big help.

Again, my Wellue ring now has me down to two to five 3% drops during the whole night whereas before any collars, my totals drops were 35 to 45 3% drops for the night. Most nights I get zero to one 4% drops during the night.

Prior to the collars, my O2 would drop as low as 81% (albeit for a very short time) once or twice a night, and the alarm would wake me up. Now it rarely drops below 88 or 89 for any of the nights with a collar, and if it does then only for a few seconds and maybe once a night. 

My oxygen average has been staying at an average of 93%. Not sure if that can be increased. My daytime average (when I did a recording) was 96% .

My wife watched me sleep and recorded my snoring (without me knowing. No, I never woke up). She says I do softly snore (her words) and then stop. She tapped my ox ring when this happened and did see my O2 go up after the stop. She also said that I tuck my chin down when I sleep. This is what I thought and is why the cervical collar helps me. It forces me to keep my head straighter.

So, this is my answer thus far. I am hoping to find better answers such as a pillow that helps keep me on my side while I sleep.

[HapaDude]

First, highly second the use of the Wellue O2 Ring as a good measure of success. I have 3-4 years worth of my nightly data and all of my experiments that have given me confidence in it. I have mild-moderate OSA. With CPAP, my Wellue Sleep Score is 9.8-10.0. When my nasal pillow strap is getting stretched loose, it starts to drop so I know to replace it. With no CPAP, my score is 7.5-8.5, with many O2 drops, and usually groggy and maybe a light headache in the morning.

I'm curious if you have any update on how the cervical collar is working on its own. I'm about to try one.

I'm always seeking a travel alternative to CPAP and/or a solution or cure! For the past 3 years or so, when I travel I use a SnoreRx MAD (mouthpiece) instead of lugging the CPAP machine. With that mouthpiece, my score is 9.0-9.5. I've worn it as long as 4 weeks straight with good results, although it's caused my jaw to be more flexible now, which sometimes leads to it hanging open a bit while sleeping and some mouth breathing when I'm using the CPAP. So, I'm always open to trying other solutions. 

Other things I've tried that haven't helped include nasal stents, Afrin, and a small buckwheat neck only pillow. Things I want to try include this cervical collar and mouth/tongue exercises using an app like SnoreGym.

[ranvanman]

First, highly second the use of the Wellue O2 Ring as a good measure of success. I have 3-4 years worth of my nightly data and all of my experiments that have given me confidence in it. I have mild-moderate OSA. With CPAP, my Wellue Sleep Score is 9.8-10.0. When my nasal pillow strap is getting stretched loose, it starts to drop so I know to replace it. With no CPAP, my score is 7.5-8.5, with many O2 drops, and usually groggy and maybe a light headache in the morning.

I'm curious if you have any update on how the cervical collar is working on its own. I'm about to try one.

I'm always seeking a travel alternative to CPAP and/or a solution or cure! For the past 3 years or so, when I travel I use a SnoreRx MAD (mouthpiece) instead of lugging the CPAP machine. With that mouthpiece, my score is 9.0-9.5. I've worn it as long as 4 weeks straight with good results, although it's caused my jaw to be more flexible now, which sometimes leads to it hanging open a bit while sleeping and some mouth breathing when I'm using the CPAP. So, I'm always open to trying other solutions. 

Other things I've tried that haven't helped include nasal stents, Afrin, and a small buckwheat neck only pillow. Things I want to try include this cervical collar and mouth/tongue exercises using an app like SnoreGym.

My apologies for taking so long to get back to you. I now have some time and do have more data.

I still use the O2 ring every night. It really helps me understand how I slept. I record every night's sleep in PDF and keep it on my phone. I also send myself an email with the PDF attached and some notes as to how I slept and what I did. Did I dream? Do I remember them? Were they pleasant dreams or bad dreams? Do I remember moving around often? If the alarm went off, what do I remember...was I on my back? Did I get up to use the bathroom or get something to drink/eat?

I do almost the same procedures every night so it doesn't change often, but sometimes I use a different background sound for "noise" in my earbud. (Since I sleep on my side, I only put the left one in my ear.)

The cervical collar has done wonders for me based on my sleep records. As I may have said in my first post, I use the Velpeau collar and place a towel on the upper part to "force" my chin up. I tighten the strap enough but not tight so that I can't move my neck around. I play "Green Noise" on my phone and use the left side of an earbud. I also use Flonase and sometimes Afrin to keep my nose clear. I sleep on my side almost the complete night. The only time the ring alarm buzzes me is if I roll on to my back or my chin tucks down because the collar wasn't tight enough. Neither happens often.

My sleep records have been good overall. With 10 being the highest, here are some numbers for the last 100 scores.

Only FOUR times did my score drop below 9.0 And those were all above 8.5.  In the range between 9.0 and 9.5, I had 16 scores with the majority of them being 9.3 and 9.4.  And on the really bright side, I had 18 nights where my score was 9.9. I have never scored a 10.

So 80% of my scores were above 9.5 during the past 100 nights. I have records going back to January, and the majority of the scores after I began using the Velpeau collar and towel are in the 9.5 and above.  Prior to that, it was a rare night that I was above 9.0, and I had many below 8..

The alarm does go off on occasion. It happened last night which was one of those nights where my score was 9.3. I had quite a few drops. I would love to know why. I think that it is probably connected to stress and anxiety. The alarm woke me up, and I was on my back. Since my alarm is set to buzz at 85, my score only dropped to 84 before I woke up. My alarm woke me up 26 nights out of the last 100 nights. Almost all of those nights was a one alarm night. I think five were two alarm nights. I never seem to have more than that. I did drop down to 81 and 82, but almost all were 84.

My average oxygen is almost always 93% with a few at 92% and a few at 94%. None are higher or lower than those numbers.

When we went on vacation this summer, I did the same thing as always. My numbers remained good. In fact, the two nights at the motel were 9.9 nights.  (We stayed at someone's house the other nights).

So that is my update. Hope this helps you or someone.