Mouth puffing up with tape

[shamrock72]

Hello all I'm currently using a soft cervical collar with mouth tape and as soon as i start to fall asleep my mouth puffs up with air even with mouth closed. Should I give up in nasal mask and just go FF. Thank you

[mesenteria]

I have no experience with masks other than the nasal cushion variety (N20, to be specific), but I have the same experience as you, and I also tape.  I believe there might be an improvement, but really, the inflated cheeks phenomenon is due to your mouth slackening both inside and out, so I would think the mask type won't matter a great deal. When you begin to fall asleep, and all those many muscles involved begin to lose tone, the forced air volume will fill all available volume, including in your mouth.  Any surface against which it imparts resistance is going to cause the flow to back up and reverse itself, or to roil, and this is what generates the inflation...pressure.

I have gotten used to it.  However, I do notice it, and use it as a sign it's time to turn on my side and fall asleep.  I day dream a bit, but on my back.  When my mouth begins to inflate, I become alert and know to turn on my side, the much better position. I won't stay there all night, of course, but once my sleep begins, nothing much matters.

[shamrock72]

Thanks for the turning on your side tip i will try it , thanks for your help

[S. Manz]

I don't quite get the point of a nasal mask. Almost everyone naturally uses both their mouths and their noses to breath in sleep or awake, so I don't understand why people insist on using a nasal mask.
I have tried nasal and the biggest problem with it is that as soon as I open my mouth a bit, air starts to escape through nasal cavities and escapes out the mouth, making the nasal mask pointless because the machine registers each event as a "leak" (which it is) . This explains why your mouth fills up with air and that's because when you sleep you don't consciously keep your nasal passage closed so air escapes through your nasal cavity into your mouth and with your moth taped up, your cheeks start to blow up and eventually you will swallow that air and it ends up in your guts and causes Aerophagia which happens when you swallow a lot of air, enough to make you burp frequently or upsets your stomach.
So a face mask is the only natural solution in my opinion. Its easy to wear and you don't have to go to bed all taped up and bandaged looking like you're ready for a space walk. Personally I like the full face ones that come with a "frame". This way I don't have to deal with a "frontal tube" delivering air directly at moy mouth. A frame type full face (like a Resmed F30i or Respironics DW full face) is pleasant to wear because I don't feel the air but still, some people like the feeling or air from the CPAP hitting their mouths. I know my dog Jake likes that a lot because he loves sticking his head out the window at highway speeds. It makes him go into a trans:-)

[shamrock72]

Thanks for your input ill give the full face a try aswell

[Dormeo]

Some people overcome inflated cheeks by working on the positioning of their tongues.

Try putting the tip of your tongue behind your upper front teeth. Then position the main part of your tongue up against your upper palate. Finally, give a little suck or swallow to create a bit of suction. You should now be able to open your mouth while breathing entirely through your nose. Practice this during the day, and see if you can get it grooved in deeply enough to help while you are asleep at night. For some people, this is really all it takes to avoid chipmunk cheeks and mouth leaks.

S. Manz, nasal interfaces are certainly not for everyone. Quite a few people, though, find them more comfortable and easier for controlling leaks. And in general, it's a healthier to breathe through the nose, mainly because it filters out a lot of gunk. Of course, when we're exerting ourselves, we may need to breathe through our mouths, to get more air in. But otherwise, the nose is better, whenever possible.

[CorruptAlligator]

+1 with what Dormeo said. I recently faced issue with interior cheeks filling with air and waking me up. I read a lot about mouth leakage and thought it probably solved with tape usage. Nope. I don't open my mouth voluntarily during sleep. It opens slightly if the mouth gets filled with air.

The way the air gets filled through the passageway that the tongue can block. By adhering the tongue on the top interior roofing of the mouth behind the upper front teeth. I tried it last night and it seems to be working, but time will tell if it's really working (I will find out if it's consistent).

I go through this because FFM causes chin-tuck and I don't care for the straps at the bottom that may pull my jaw back. I get the best sleep with nasal masks that results in the lowest AHI and centrals. My FL is significantly worse with FFM This is why we go nasal!

[Superstar]

Hello all I'm currently using a soft cervical collar with mouth tape and as soon as i start to fall asleep my mouth puffs up with air even with mouth closed. Should I give up in nasal mask and just go FF. Thank you

I totally understand where you are coming from.  DME started me with the most minimalistic mask, the ResMed P10 nasal, and it was so comfortable. I struggled with it for 19 days..taping mouth shut, gluing it shut, trying a chin strap. Nothing worked.  I am not a mouth breather but the air slipped around my tongue. I had chipmunk cheeks, severe dry mouth, aerophagia and major leaks all night long. I finally gave up and tried the ResMed f30i. It works much better. It takes getting used to the straps, etc., but at least it rarely leaks. And I can sleep  comfortably on my side with a buckwheat pillow.  It is not perfect. I have a small face and even the small is slighly too big. So I use a liner in it and that stops the leaking. 

Just keep looking and experimenting until you find what works for you. Then the battle is 99% won.

Good luck.

[antond]

Hi folks,

I too suffer from chipmunk cheeks periodically only during REM. I am able to get excellent deep sleep, but can be a wreck during REM.

I'm wondering if I'm missing any other strategies that can be attempted. I will try positioning my tongue behind my front teeth as was mentioned earlier in the thread.

What I've done so far:
- CPAP pressure at 7.4 that doesn't cause aerophagia and seems to only sometimes cause chipmunk cheeks
- p30i + excellent mouth tape with no slit (should I try a slit to let air leak out when the cheek bulge would happen?)
- chin strap (when chin strap is missing, I get pretty much no REM so jaw drop is definitely an issue)
- hydrate but not too much
- I'm a side sleeper so N30i has been challenging, but I can give it another shot.

Given the above, do you have any other suggestions for what to try? Since I'm so dependent on chin strap, I may need a dental device to keep my lower jaw in position.

Would be grateful for any thoughts or suggestions for what to try to improve chipmunk cheeks during REM.

Anton

[Dormeo]

Antond, you could try a soft cervical collar instead of a chin strap to support your lower jaw from below. And for what it's worth, I'm skeptical whether a slit in your tape would help you release enough air to be worth it. But give it a try; experimentation and problem-solving are part of what leads to success with PAP.