Mycobacterium avium-intracellulare ,cpap and distilled water for humidifier

[JimInPT]

FWIW on drying your hose, JimInPT. I've read others that hook up the hose to their CPAP and run it a minute or so to blow out the water. I've never done this myself, as I have the time to let my hose dry for multiple hours before use.

Thanks, Dave; I've thought about doing exactly that if I ever find myself having to flush it out with water.

What I don't have a feel for is how much exhaled air is backflowed through the hose toward the machine - I bet not much or near zero.  So that should eliminate the possibility of lung-gunk being deposited on the hose inner walls, but even then the ozone cleaning cycle should kill any microbes that manage to swim upstream.

The Soclean injects the ozone into the humidifier's water - from there it works itself though the rest of the system, the hose and out the mask (which is inside the Soclean's chamber, where the ozone sanitizes the outer surfaces of the mask) in a closed loop - as long as the ozone does its job I can't imagine a more-thorough sanitizing of the CPAP air path.  But that's the mechanical engineer in me; the microbiologists may have more to offer here.

[Stom]

What I don't have a feel for is how much exhaled air is backflowed through the hose toward the machine - I bet not much or near zero. 

I'd love for a CPAP user who vapes to do a visual demo on this with a clear mask and hose, by breathing in vape and then out through the nasal mask to visually demonstrate the washout process.

[chip mcdonald]

Does anyone know of studies of the efficacy of simply using filtered water in a glass container - microwaved to boiling?

Seems like if you sanitize your tank with alcohol, and use microwaved water you've eliminated basically all you can....?

Too bad the tanks must have the metal conductive inserts, you could microwave the water AND the tank at the same time....

[Melman]

There are two things wrong with this proposal. First, as has been explained over and over again in this thread and others, a high level sanitation is not necessary. Second, for a number reasons, even if you could achieve a high level of sanitization, which is questionable, it would be impossible to avoid recolonization of the water and humidifier with environmental organisms almost immediately due to handling and exposure to non-sterile air. I can't help but wonder why, as a non-CPAP user you have chosen to pick this discussion.

[matthewb]

It doesn't matter how much you sanitise things, where is the air coming from when the machine starts up? thru a very coarse filter and into your lungs. Want to prevent bugs, start with the air source itself. Until you eliminate the stuff in the room's air you're fighting a losing battle.

I clean my mask weekly, hose monthly, and humidifier usually weekly as well, never had mould, gunk or anything else nasty. Just the painful to remove water scale, even the bottled stuff does that here, and distilled is available from lab suppliers only, at about $5 a litre.

[chip mcdonald]

There are two things wrong with this proposal. First, as has been explained over and over again in this thread and others, a high level sanitation is not necessary

"High level of sanitation" is relative. I want to use filtered tap water. Non-sterilized it will contain microorganisms. Your references to other time variable environmental situations do not mimic the environment of the humidifier tank and the specialized circumstance in which it's used.

. Second, for a number reasons, even if you could achieve a high level of sanitization, which is questionable, it would be impossible to avoid recolonization of

I did not state it would be impossible. It would hopefully kill anything living in the water and the tank, which is effectively all that is practical to do.



{quote] I can't help but wonder why, as a non-CPAP user you have chosen to pick this discussion.
[/quote]

Because you haven't considered that I *will* be a CPAP user, hopefully as of Monday when my machine arrives.

I will be using distilled water; non-osmotic filters do not address dissolved solids. There are other things to worry about in tap water than just biology - there is asbestos and other minerals, dissolved solids I do not wish to be routinely aerosolized into my lungs for the rest of my life.

[mesenteria]

I will be using distilled water; non-osmotic filters do not address dissolved solids.  There are other things to worry about in tap water than just biology - there is asbestos and other minerals, dissolved solids I do not wish to be routinely aerosolized into my lungs for the rest of my life.
[/quote]

None of these things can be taken up by vapour molecules.  Think about it a bit more...if it were otherwise, you'd never have to worry about calcium deposits in the diminishing volumes of water in humidifiers everywhere.  They'd be airborne with the rest of the water, no?  But that clearly is not the case.  Water vapour CANNOT take up minerals, including asbestos (if it's there at all) with it.

[JimInPT]

...... distilled is available from lab suppliers only, at about $5 a litre.

Wow!  That's nuts; a gallon of distilled water is available here at any grocery store for US$1.00 - 1.25

Even so, a trip to the store is 10 miles round-trip for me if I forget to buy more and run out, so for convenience and cost savings I bought a water distiller from eBay for about $80 - it makes about a gallon in a little over three hours for $0.28 (I measured it with a KillAWatt meter) so if it keeps working it'll pay for itself fairly quickly.  Since I started using it for CPAP, I've found all sorts of uses for hydroponics, drinking, cooking and ice-making (it's better than even the reverse-osmosis I use on my well water) so I'm already making 5-6 gallons/week.

The distiller design is a little ordinary - it's supposed to run until the water is all gone from the tank and it overheats, trips a temperature limiter, then shuts off.  To prolong its life, I got a digital timer that runs it for 3 hours, 20 minutes and shuts it down with about 1/2" of water left in the tank so it never overheats.

[SarcasticDave94]

FWIW on drying your hose, JimInPT. I've read others that hook up the hose to their CPAP and run it a minute or so to blow out the water. I've never done this myself, as I have the time to let my hose dry for multiple hours before use.

Thanks, Dave; I've thought about doing exactly that if I ever find myself having to flush it out with water.

What I don't have a feel for is how much exhaled air is backflowed through the hose toward the machine - I bet not much or near zero.  So that should eliminate the possibility of lung-gunk being deposited on the hose inner walls, but even then the ozone cleaning cycle should kill any microbes that manage to swim upstream.

The Soclean injects the ozone into the humidifier's water - from there it works itself though the rest of the system, the hose and out the mask (which is inside the Soclean's chamber, where the ozone sanitizes the outer surfaces of the mask) in a closed loop - as long as the ozone does its job I can't imagine a more-thorough sanitizing of the CPAP air path.  But that's the mechanical engineer in me; the microbiologists may have more to offer here.

Comment focused on bold red: This is my opinion and not a scientific lab study, but I would think the air exhaled by us through the mask and elbow probably would not get further than the Anti-asphyxia valve (AAV). Reason? The exhaust vents are just above the AAV and the mask itself.

[JimInPT]

Comment focused on bold red: This is my opinion and not a scientific lab study, but I would think the air exhaled by us through the mask and elbow probably would not get further than the Anti-asphyxia valve (AAV). Reason? The exhaust vents are just above the AAV and the mask itself.

I think that gadget is for full-face only, and from the name I can imagine its purpose on a full-face.  My Dreamwear gel-pillow mask is quite a bit simpler, but since I can't cough into it, it should be relatively impervious to forcing gunk back into the hose.