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I have a Wellue O2 Ring and have been wonder if the pattern of pulse, SpO2 and micromovements correspond to a phase of sleep, specifically REM. Anyone have some understanding of REM sleep that might help me decide? From my brief research, it appears breathing and pulse change during REM. The patterns and the number of occurrences with more toward the second half of sleep seem to suggest REM.
I've attached a Viatom only import into OSCAR (no CPAP). By zooming in on the scale of the movement readings, I can see twitches (?) that correspond to the time of many SpO2 swings.
The description of sleep myoclonus seems like it describes the tiny twitches I am seeing in the data. (My wife has seen them in the morning before I wake.)
"Myoclonus is a brief twitching of the muscles that can occur separately or in groups, as well as in a sequence or at random."
I would interpret them as arousals. It would appear that a little after 6:00AM, you go up for a bathroom break or to let the dog(s) out. Seeing your data, I would think that you had an unrestful sleep, with a lot of tossing or turning.
For your knowledge; The Viatom/Wellue devices sample every second, but only report every 4 seconds. This is based on information on their website. I'm unable to ascertain if the reported value is an average of the previous 4 seconds or just every 4th sample.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Almost all of my sleep has been less than restful on CPAP. I have an appt on the 20th to review my lab sleep study and I was told by a tech that they are likely to recommend an ASV machine. While it will help my CAs by providing backup, I am curious if it will leave me rested. Crossing my fingers.....
I am not qualified to answer the actual question. But I have a question for you: if you are interested in this, maybe look into an Oura ring or a Fitbit tracker or etc. These things show REM sleep. Whether they are accurate is another question.
I found a cool YouTube channel called "The Quantified Scientist" I would link to it but I think we are not supposed to link to things? Still new here.
Anyway, that guy does compare the accuracy of various sleep trackers on himself by comparing against some professional sleep-study type equipment. So you could look at that site for a while and see if you can find a device that is accurate enough for you, which may depend on your exact need for this info.
(07-16-2021, 08:29 AM)SonofBiPAPuser Wrote: I am not qualified to answer the actual question. But I have a question for you: if you are interested in this, maybe look into an Oura ring or a Fitbit tracker or etc. These things show REM sleep. Whether they are accurate is another question.
My wife has a Versa 2 and I have tried wearing it. I would really like to see the ALGORITHM that they use to determine sleep stages, because all they have is SpO2, pulse and possibly motion, right? That is what the Wellue O2 ring has. I confess I don't use the Viatom app (I don't like lots of apps on my phone) so I don't now if it claims to show sleep stages.
(07-16-2021, 08:29 AM)SonofBiPAPuser Wrote: I found a cool YouTube channel called "The Quantified Scientist" I would link to it but I think we are not supposed to link to things? Still new here.
Thanks for reminding me of him. I've seen some of his videos before.
(07-16-2021, 08:29 AM)SonofBiPAPuser Wrote: Anyway, that guy does compare the accuracy of various sleep trackers on himself by comparing against some professional sleep-study type equipment. So you could look at that site for a while and see if you can find a device that is accurate enough for you, which may depend on your exact need for this info.
I'll start using the Versa 2 for the next few days to see if I can determine what it might be using to id various sleep states. It would be sweet if OSCAR would attempt sleep stage analysis, especially if Viatom data is included with the CPAP data. They have a LOT more detail than these bands/rings.
(07-16-2021, 08:29 AM)SonofBiPAPuser Wrote: Good luck!
I need it! Check out last nights Oscar with the O2 ring data (Viatom) placed in it. It looks like a earthquake... with those 'tidal' volumes, more like a Tsunami... ;-)
Coldfeet, I've looked at Oscar data, Dreem headband data, and recently Fitbit data. The Dreem has sensors that measure brain activity, so of the three devices, the Dreem probably does the best job of helping me understand my sleep stages.
Before I started using the Dreem, I had noticed "flares" of higher respiration in my Oscar graphs, occurring at intervals suggesting association with REM sleep. The Dreem confirmed that these flares did indeed occur during REM, but the Dreem also indicated I had REM sleep that wasn't associated with flares.
The Fitbit sleep-staging is terrible! It doesn't do a good job even of indicating whether I'm awake or asleep.
I haven't yet used all three items at the same time, but I will because I'm curious.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
I looked at the Dreem and got excited, but I thought they took it off the market for individuals and only work with clinicians now. Do I have the wrong product in mind? Maybe it was the Dreem2 that went pro.
Looking forward to what you find using all three.
I find that my CA clusters (and/or CSR) comes after a bout of periodic breathing. The periodic breathing happens often during the night for me but it will often resolve into a more stable pattern for a while. I have a theory that under the right (or wrong if you will) conditions the periodic breathing can slip into a CA sequence due to some feedback loop in my system. I think the periodic breathing hints at a feedback loop that is beginning to oscillate.
Sleep myoclonus is an older name for PLMS (Periodic Limb Movements in Sleep) - often (but not always) associated with Restless Leg Syndrom (RLS). There is also REM Sleep Behavior Disorder (RSBD) which tends to be more active movements during REM rather than the twitches associated with PLMS.
We've discussed PLM in your other threads... I would see if you can get investigations down that path if you haven't already... it sounds like you've got eyewitness accounts of it happening...
