Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
This is split off from another thread since this seems like it deserves an entire thread of its own. Also, I saw at least one other thread about insurance vs. not, but this is coming at this from a different angle, and necroposting is often frowned upon elsewhere.
Anyway, I am curious about various pros and cons with buying a PAP device at full price (or on sale, "retail", maybe refurbished, whatever, just not through insurance). This is assuming I have the means and vaguely understand the costs between buying a device outright vs. insurance.
I know these are devices are designed to be durable (that's the D in DME, of course), but any device can fail or have problems, especially those with moving parts. One of my biggest worries about going away from insurance and a DME provider is the relative security of knowing I can get a replacement machine fairly quickly, which I needed a couple months ago. Is there any kind of safety net like that if I buy a machine outright?
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
This should answer some of your questions.
https://ap.resmed.com/knowledge/warranty
02-06-2024, 12:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2024, 12:41 PM by BoxcarPete.)
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
There are some real horror stories about people dealing with DME offices, getting wrong machines, lease turn-ins from non-compliant patients sold as new, and now that Phillips has pulled all their machines from the market, there are a few fresh nightmares about fighting over whether or not the DME can even legally dispense their Phillips stock to patients at all.
If you go to Supplier#1, you can get yourself a ResMed AS10 card-to-cloud for $450, and they sometimes have deals and sales that apply to machines, not just supplies. If you have a few hundred bucks to spare, you can get the exact machine you want, brand new, delivered in a couple days. There will be no compliance nagging, no hoops to jump through, no fighting over what the prescription says, just you, your mask, and some lightly pressurised air. In my case, I even paid from my HSA, which was the only insurance benefit I was likely to receive from my own policy, which has a high deductible. Honestly it's all pros unless you have coverage which gets you a machine for under a hundred bucks or something.
Look, I'm an engineer, not a doctor! Please don't take my opinion as a substitute for medical advice.
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
Everyone seems to have different cost of entry depending on insurance and what they need. Deductibles and copay for doctor visits, sleep testing and follow-up and initial equipment supply can range from nothing to thousands, it's hard to give a good answer. You can buy a Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset card to cloud version for $399, and add in a mask and tube. For some people, just the convenience of doing that and being done with the hassles of dealing with insurance, doctors and suppliers is worth it. Other users have no experience or knowledge to be able to get good results without the doctor and supplier.
I don't think the warranty is a major consideration. Failures of these machines are rare, and repair costs are not formidable. A reconditioning of a device with "motor hours exceeded" on the screen is $220 from Supplier #28, including new motor, cleaning calibration and software reset of run-hours, or a DIY motor replacement of about $100.
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
(02-06-2024, 11:55 AM)Nightynite Wrote: This should answer some of your questions.
https://ap.resmed.com/knowledge/warranty
This does, although I would assume any of the major OEMs would provide some kind of warranty, and I would not want to put that kind of money on such a critical device without a warranty.
That being said, does anyone have any experience with warranty replacements? Do any providers selling direct to consumer offer anything in addition to the OEM warranty? Unless turnaround is extremely quick, I think I may want to keep a backup machine around.
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
Everyone should have a backup machine. I can’t imagine having to sleep without my machine if I needed to send it to a repair shop it a different state. I have a back up machine and a portable power supply.
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
(02-06-2024, 12:59 PM)TwoFistedWonderBrain Wrote: That being said, does anyone have any experience with warranty replacements? Do any providers selling direct to consumer offer anything in addition to the OEM warranty? Unless turnaround is extremely quick, I think I may want to keep a backup machine around.
The manufacturers do not work with end-users with warranty claims. All claims must be handled through an authorized retailer or DME. If you buy your machine used or through an unauthorized channel, you are S.O.L for warranty service.
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
(02-06-2024, 02:00 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: The manufacturers do not work with end-users with warranty claims. All claims must be handled through an authorized retailer or DME. If you buy your machine used or through an unauthorized channel, you are S.O.L for warranty service.
Ah, good to know! Great info all around here!
I just found out yesterday that I'm about halfway through a 10-month rental term of my G3 Luna at over $100/month. When I confronted them over the phone that this is a $600 machine, they countered that they have it listed as a $1200 machine. My instinct here is that there is basically no recourse here, but please correct me if I am wrong.
Part of me wants to just pay it out until August so I can have a backup machine, also because of the sunk cost already. That being said, if I am already considering a ResMed 10 Autoset at $450 or less, it could be worth it to just get two there and end the relationship with the DME provider. Any advice there?
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
Step 1: buy the Resmed card-to-cloud.
Step 2: fail compliance on the G3 Luna. It's just not working out.
Step 3: DME gets mad and takes the machine back to give to someone else.
Step 4: cry your tears of sorrow.
Look, I'm an engineer, not a doctor! Please don't take my opinion as a substitute for medical advice.
RE: Pros/Cons of buying PAP at full price
Since your deductibles are high and you are paying a lot more than the machine is worth, I would not invest another $600 in the Chinese knockoff. You will really like the Resmed. You can call your insurance and ask if they REQUIRE a CPAP be sold as a 13 month rental. They may have a policy that allows for shorter rental or direct purchase. For direct purchase contracts, you will owe all deductibles and copay at one time, but you should be paying the insurance negotiated price for a CPAP, not DME retail. Note that the DME intentionally sold you a cheap machine to improve profits. They get paid the same regardless of which device they sell you. To them it is a E0601 CPAP, and they add up all the components like humidifier, humidifier chamber, filter, tube, mask etc separately. So whether they sell you a Resmed or Resvent, the DME charges the same and pockets the profits. You needed to argue the brand and model before it was dispensed.
No harm in returning the rental now, and you will end up with a better machine for less money. The DME can still dispense masks, filters and replacement parts, but given your deductibles, it probably won't be a good deal. When you call your insurer about rental or sale, also ask about making out-of-network claims. You can submit claim forms from suppliers like Supplier #1 and be reimbursed at the out of network rate. That may actually save you money. Supplier #1 has an excellent warranty service reputation, and masks cost a fraction of what your DME is charging.
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