Suggestion: Try filming yourself

[3rdMarDiv]

Getting faster at waking up from these poor breathing events. Last night did not reach OA Event Apnea level. Left side was back sleeping and right side was stomach sleeping. Woke up and told myself to stay on my stomach and did so rest of the night. Holding my AHI down as well.

The main hope I see existing right now is repetitious mind training.

I find my machine has an alarm for non-breathing events. Starts at 10 seconds. Well see how that works. 

 
3rdMarDiv-

Are you using a soft cervical collar yet?  -  If not, that would be great to do.  It will help to stop the clustered events, even when sleeping on your back! -  The clustered events are a result of "positional apnea".  Here's a link to info about that:  http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...onal_Apnea

Also, here's a link from this forum that deals with sleeping on your back.   You'll see mention of tennis balls as a possible cure.   Lots of good tips in this link:

http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...nnis+balls

Good luck!

Thank you very much for supplying the links. I really can’t thank you enough.
I was wondering how something like positional apnea wasn’t already covered in this forum. I honestly thought I was making some kind of discovery, which, I did make about my personal apnea condition. Everything I’m finding and doing has been one eureka moment after another. When I posted my research I was hoping someone would read it and respond with similar circumstances.
The link you sent validates and encourages me to continue toward my goals.
All of the content in the wiki parallels my symptoms from the descriptions to the graphs and charts.
The direction I was headed takes a different path in that I always intended and have been implementing self-correction through mind control. I think most people would say that controlling what position you sleep in isn’t possible, but I knew that wasn’t the case. I’ve already been doing it for many years in many instances. It is my firm belief that I will be able to eliminate back sleeping through regular mind conditioning. I have been successful thus far.
When I first discovered that all of my OA and CA apnea events were happening only when I slept on my back I began implementing a plan to eliminate that from happening.
I start out by making commands to my mind that sleeping on my back is life threatening and must be avoided at all costs. I tell my mind it is of the highest importance, very serious and a matter of life.
I set the apnea alarm to go off in 10 seconds of recognizing an apnea as a means to introduce negative re-enforcement. Sleep on your back and you get woke up. If you sleep on your back you will really suffer as you already have sleep apnea, have to wear a mask, endure high pressure breathing and now there is an alarm waking you up. 
My wife has also added to the negative reinforcement when the alarm has gone off…LOL   

To me this is much better that the OA, CA, etc. waking me up. In fact, this is much better in that I saw where I would sleep through many events sometimes over an hour in duration. I’m lying there in bed gasping for air over and over. It’s no different than where before CPAP except that the machine catches it now and insures I don’t also stop breathing for over a minute, robbing me of oxygen.
I am still being woke up by the rapid succession of gasping for air and I’m absolutely certain that continuing to have apnea events of any duration is still bad for you.
I also do not want to add equipment or aids to my routine, such as, tennis balls, a back pack with a basketball in it, cervical collar, etc. Not when I know I can take control and stop this nonsense on my own.
I started this experiment a week ago . In the last 5 nights I have been woke up by the alarm 3 times one night, two another, and 1 time the others. The night of 3 times was puzzling me until I read the article and realized that hypopneas can also be caused in any position by crooking the neck downwards. The alarm on my machine alerts to any and all apneas. The machine usually corrects hypopneas within 10 seconds so I have had between 7 and 10 hypopneas with alarm alerts only the one night.
This is not that complicated. Every CPAP user is already using mind control successfully. How could you go from sleeping with no equipment attached to your body to strapping on a jet fighter mask and having enough air pumped into your lungs to inflate a car tire unless you could control you mind. You know the machine is good for you, but when you first start out you woke up and tried to tear it off your face in a panic. You called the place you got it and told them someone must have screwed up somewhere as that much air pressure is just nuts. Everything about CPAP is all about successful mind control.
I intent to never sleep on my back, reduce my IPAP EPAP to 20/16 (already gone from 28/24 to 23/20.5), eliminate mask leaks, lowering my AHI below 1 (one) every night and sleep like a baby through the entire night every night.
Wish me luck as I am a Former United States Marine Corp Sergeant of Combat Marines and if I fail then you as a mere mortal have no chance in hell of succeeding.
As US Marines the entire platoon recited this prayer, out loud together, recited this prayer. Just substitute CPAP Machine for rifle and you will know what my attitude toward all this is.

Marine Rifleman’s Creed
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will ...
My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit ...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will ...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace! AMEN..!

The other article on gimmicks I won’t even look at as that is not even an option.
Thanks again so much for the article on Positional Sleep Apnea as it was exactly what I needed to see.
Following screenshots are from PR DreamMapper, which will count more false positives. OA’s and CA’s in most cases were below 10 seconds where I have alarm set. See above for actual alarm numbers. May 30th was last night rolling onto my back.

   
   
   
   
   

I can only do 5 nights attachment uploads and will add more in following posts.

[3rdMarDiv]

Additional Screenshots

   
   

[Snoring Bear]

Everything about CPAP is all about successful mind control...

I intent to never sleep on my back, reduce my IPAP EPAP to 20/16 (already gone from 28/24 to 23/20.5), eliminate mask leaks, lowering my AHI below 1 (one) every night and sleep like a baby through the entire night every night.
Wish me luck as I am a Former United States Marine Corp Sergeant of Combat Marines and if I fail then you as a mere mortal have no chance in hell of succeeding.

Thanks again so much for the article on Positional Sleep Apnea as it was exactly what I needed to see.
Following screenshots are from PR DreamMapper, which will count more false positives. OA’s and CA’s in most cases were below 10 seconds where I have alarm set. See above for actual alarm numbers. May 30th was last night rolling onto my back.

3rdMarDiv-

First off, thank you for your service to our country!!!

You will accomplish your cpap goals as you are "determined to do so"! - And of course, your mind is more powerful than anything!!!

A couple additional thoughts that may help you in  achieving your goals:

Have you read Fred Bonjour's Mask Primer?  If not, it's great information to know.  Here's a link:
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ask_Primer


Also, have you posted OSCAR or SleepyHead charts to this forum yet? - - I'm assuming your machine is compatible with the software. - - If you're able to post either of the above charts, it would be great so that the experts here could help to make sure your "shots are true".

Best of luck in accomplishing your mission...I know you will succeed!!!

SB

[3rdMarDiv]

I've really been getting into my apnea/cpap condition. I study the OSCAR reports, my DreamMapper results, any info I can find. I've been able to draw a few conclusions with the main one being that my apnea events are nicely clustered. I have sleep for awhile and then a bunch of closely timed rhythmic events happen for differing durations of time. 

I took my security camera and put it on a tripod next to my bed. The recording and OSCAR are synced in time by the computer so I can go to a second mark in OSCAR to that same second on the recording and vise versa. Studying this information I can see what a CA looks like when it happens to me after cpap reaction. Sharp rise in upper torso, the machine is louder from increasing pressure and a number of other reactions. It's not pretty and looks like a mini defibrillator was applied to me.

After looking at all the information for awhile I learned that the events happened always when I slept on my back. They started to the exact second when I moved to my back and stopped to exact second when I changed to my side. I mean literally to within one second when I changed position.

The night looked like the left and right sides of the cluster in the middle.



(OSCAR is not fully functional with my machine yet so apnea events are not marked)

I don't know if it will help you, but if nothing else, it is interesting and maybe you will learn something.

Now, if I can just figure how to not sleep on my back...  

The link below is to a post with my experience detailed, including a chart from use of the accelerometer alternative. It might prompt something useful to you, just as your report has done for me about your well synchronized, time efficient camera method. It would be helpful to see details of the camera, program, and setup. One reason I didn't go the camera route was I am not up on photography at all.

If you've set and used your own accelerometer then I assure you the security camera would be child's play. The company will walk you through the steps and in 15 minutes your up and running. The camera is synced to GMT as is OSCAR. The camera has a screw hole to mount to a tripod. Just point it at yourself and you're in business for 30 dollars. When your done, use it as a security camera in your house.

I did read your thread and it is very interesting. I spoke with my son about it and he uses an accelerometer. I guess you can buy them on Amazon and elsewhere. He was also taking about a device that tells you what phase of sleep you are in. Not sure if that's the accelerometer or not I have to get back with him on that one.

[Diotima245]

something creepy about filming myself then watching it... :/

[3rdMarDiv]

something creepy about filming myself then watching it... :/

You’re not kidding!! Especially since I sleep in the nude… LOL

[2SleepBetta]

If you've set and used your own accelerometer then I assure you the security camera would be child's play. The company will walk you through the steps and in 15 minutes your up and running. The camera is synced to GMT as is OSCAR. The camera has a screw hole to mount to a tripod. Just point it at yourself and you're in business for 30 dollars. When your done, use it as a security camera in your house.

I did read your thread and it is very interesting. I spoke with my son about it and he uses an accelerometer. I guess you can buy them on Amazon and elsewhere. He was also taking about a device that tells you what phase of sleep you are in. Not sure if that's the accelerometer or not I have to get back with him on that one.

I haven't been here for a while and noticed your reply just now. I think it's OK to identify the camera if you would please do that. 


Regarding the accelerometer, it is available from its manufacturer which can be googled using "Gulf Data Concepts". They have excellent manuals on line for the two devices I have; they are the X16-1D (it uses one AA battery, lasting about a month) and the X2-2 (it uses a lithium--I think--USB-rechargeable battery and a charge lasts much longer than they claim, a couple of nights if not more). Data is output to a simple Excel csv text file: device settings, start time, the succession of elapsed times, battery level, x, y, and z coordinate values. It takes me about 20 minutes to get motion graphs and synchronize them with a pasted -in copy of SleepyHead or OSCAR graphics. GCD' support and service has been excellent as the engineers and designers of the units. I'd share or help if you become interested and want it. 


In my use I initially mounted the X16 on the bill of a ball cap, against the headband using rubber bands. After a time I bought the X2 and mounted it against my back in the bottom of a knapsack--that one attenuates a lot of the indicated head motion, but generally agrees with timing, directions (like a plumb bob) and the accelerations. The X2 is much closer to the body's center of mass and a more reliable indicator of how involved the central mass of the body is in motions. 


When I get ambitious I'll fool with simplifying my Excel charting spreadsheet to make it smaller (I just paste the whole device output table into it) and will be trying to remember how to integrate the acceleration curves to esitmate how much physical work I do moving around in bed--the latter being way deep into the weeds and OT for sleep docs, especially when AHI is below 1.0. 


One sleep scientist claims the great majority of people make about 26 significant moves in their night of sleep. It varies for me, but he seems basically correct for my case. The whole topic has been fascinating to learn more and more about. A valuable (to me) finding beyond pinpointing supine sleep as a major OSA maker, is learning that a lot of the spikes in flow rate curves are a kind of breathing tics that are uncorrelated (at my device sensitivity settings, anyway) with motions or flow limitations. Before getting the accelerometer data I was not sure if breathing difficulty caused the motions or if motions just produced breathing disturbances. With my new-to-me VAuto snore has disappeared, but there were many large snores that almost always coincided with motion and flow spikes when using my Autoset with similar settings (though Autoset EPR was only 3 vs my pressure support of 4 for the VAuto. The VAuto has dramatically reduced Flow limitations, too.

It would be interesting to see what the FR and FL curves look like for 25-, 50- and 75-year old "supersleepers". My guess is it would be hard to get a fix on that if sleep-disturbing wiring like that for a sleep study were to be affixed to the supersleeper.


Keep up the good work and good luck, 3rdMarDiv. Good to see you doing it with mind power and filming to get honest feedback. I've gone far more the way of gadgets and metrics, finding and using whatever works (fortunately with lots of help from AB advisors and no need for drugs)--all that, step by step, like peeling layer after layer off an onion (mixing metaphors), after having started with high/severe RDI and extremely long and dense OSAs.

2SB

[3rdMarDiv]

Keep up the good work and good luck, 3rdMarDiv. Good to see you doing it with mind power and filming to get honest feedback. I've gone far more the way of gadgets and metrics, finding and using whatever works (fortunately with lots of help from AB advisors and no need for drugs)--all that, step by step, like peeling layer after layer off an onion (mixing metaphors), after having started with high/severe RDI and extremely long and dense OSAs.

2SB

I only needed to film myself for 4 nights to confirm that my apnea events were happening when I sleep on my back and only when I was on my back. Once I confirmed that, I began attempting to sleep only in the prone position. I used the alarm setting to alert me to "Violations". That only took 3 nights. The alarms cut down to 2 or 3 a night and now are at zero (0). My AHI is below 1 unless other factors interfere. One night I ate a big meal late and had acid reflux for instance. Getting up frequently creates false positives.

I will be posting my results in a new thread. Click on my screen name and go to "Total Posts" > "Find All Posts".

I was intrigued by your info on accelerometer and in speaking about that with my Son he informed me that his wife's Fitbit does all that and he sent me this article. 

https://blog.fitbit.com/sleep-stages-explained/

I'm no longer looking at different position data as I only sleep prone.

This article is more for sleep stages as now I am looking at quality of my sleep.

If you research Fitbits you find the ones that also describe, position and movement detail. 

Wearing a small device on your wrist looks much more comfortable.

Thanks for your info as it opened up another new way for me to approach all of this.

[RNeil]

The neck pain forums say that we should sleep on our backs. I thought that the CPAP should allow this so I tried it. I slept on my back without a pillow under my head, but with a pillow under my knees. OSCAR reported an AHI of 9.4 instead of the typical 3.5. But my neck felt better.

I am back to sleeping on my side. Today I ordered a pillow made for side sleeping with a CPAP mask.

[jbsix]

I learned that the events happened always when I slept on my back.

This was me a couple years back. i'd frequently wake up gasping for air or wake up following bizarre nightmares, always on my back. it gradually got worse, to the point where lying on my back for 5 minutes was guaranteed to result in the wake-up-startle. this continued until i saw an ENT about getting my tonsils removed (they were apparently enlarged). gonna try your video idea and check if it's completely gone but at the very least i have no issues lying on my back while trying to fall asleep.