Training Yourself to stop Mouth Breathing?

[jgjones1972]

ISN'T IT A GOOD THING THAT THE AIRWAY CAN'T COLLAPSE? THAT'S WHAT PUZZLES ME.

It's a good thing that the airway can't collapse, but a bad thing that you have your mouth taped shut and your nose sealed to a mask and hose. Nasal masks/pillows don't have the mechanism on them that Full Face masks have that keeps a large portion of the air that is exhaled from being continually re-breathed if the machine fails or is disabled. If this would happen, the drop in your blood O2 saturation would probably make you wake up and frantically rip the tape off or something like that; but is that something you want to test? I wouldn't recommend it.

There is a product called "Chin-ups" that are kind of like tape, but instead of covering your lips, they are kind of U-shaped and go under your bottom lip and then curl up both sides and anchor to your cheeks. When applied properly they hold your lips shut while you are relaxed, but with a little effort you can part your lips (mainly by raising the top lip). I don't see why someone wouldn't be able to do something similar with ordinary tape (like cutting the proper sized U-shape out of wide tape or something like that). The general rule is that if you can sip water with it on, then you should be ok.

I don't really personally recommend any of this stuff and have never really gotten anything to work AND be what I considered to be safe other than Full Face Mask; but if you're going to use tape, I think it would be much better to use it in such a way as to still be able to sip water.

That's just my opinion; and you know what opinions are like - they are like statements made with a lot of subjectivity. (That IS how the saying goes ISN'T it?)

[archangle]

Re: vomiting

The problem isn't necessarily that you'll die right then from suffocation, although that COULD happen if you can't get the tape off quickly enough or if you're somehow incapacitated.

The bigger risk is that you'll get stomach acid into your lungs. Even once you cough it up and are able to breathe again, there's still some acid in your lungs and some damage to the lungs. You'll get aspiration pneumonia, which is a VERY big deal. Google it and see.

If you do tape your mouth, be sure your can still open your mouth despite the tape in an emergency. That will reduce the risk of aspiration pneumonia somewhat.

You may think there's not much risk of vomiting before you can get the tape off, but you'll be doing CPAP the rest of your life. You may be really sick some night. Or you may be on some sort of drug like pain killers that dulls your senses. It might even be some drug you wouldn't think would leave you senseless. Or you may be suffering from something like a stroke, or some disease that dulls your senses. Or even alcohol.


Re: suffocation

With a nasal mask and your mouth taped, if the machine quits blowing, your exhaled breath will go back up the hose, and you'll rebreathe it. You'll be breathing air that's low in oxygen. While most of us will wake up, it can also render you unconscious and you might suffocate. Read up on "confined space training" for info on how a low O2 environment can cause you to pass out and die without ever noticing anything is wrong.

That's why all full face masks have "anti-asphyxia" valves. If you tape your mouth shut with a nasal mask, you've basically got all the risks of a full face mask, but don't have the required anti-asphyxia valve.

[pdeli]

Thanks for your response.

I'm quickly realizing that this issue is much more troublesome or complicated than I had expected. It seems that we all have variables in terms of pressure, mask fitting, dry mouth, air in abdomen, mouth opening, dry mouth, and general comfort. I'm thinking that this procedure requires much more individual instruction and awareness of the various issues than simply how to put it on.

I had a c-pap maybe 15 yrs ago and gave it up because I could never get a mask that didn't leak. I went to a dental appliance which I thought was working, but apparently not as well as I thought.

I have a full face, a nasel, and a nasel pillow, and I usually switch between the last two. My pressure has been reduced to 7 cmH2O, which on one hand seems low, but on the other hand seems to still produce stomach cramps. In other words, I'm still exhausted most of the day. Also, my mouth is quite dry now and that can easily become a dental issue.

So now it seems that a conversation with the sleep lab Doc is in order , but in the end, I need to figure things out myself.

My program doesn't include follow-up testing unless I have specific complaints. Is this the way other programs are set up?

Phil


A hybrid mask has two parts. Nasal pillows for your nostrils and a mask for your mouth.

If you must tape form a flap on each side by folding the tape back over on itself. That way if you wake up while suffocating you'll have a handle on each side for pulling the tape off.

You can also get a device at the home center that plugs into an electric outlet in your bedroom and sounds an alarm if the electricity goes out.

I have to say that you're a lot braver than me. I'm too scared to tape my mouth shut.

The other issue is that the chin strap will act as a training device that teaches your body to keep the air trapped behind your mouth. You can help this training process by tucking the tip of your tongue up against the roof of your mouth, behind your front teeth. Practice doing this while you're awake during the day.

I know this all sounds weird but the human body is capable of adapting to almost anything. CPAP therapy included.
[/quote]

[pdeli]

Thank you, your comments were quite helpful.

The reason I went to the tape was because the air escaping from my mouth would make my tongue flutter, and that noise would wake up both of us.

So now I'll put more energy into a full face setup and try harder to make that work.

Phil


ISN'T IT A GOOD THING THAT THE AIRWAY CAN'T COLLAPSE? THAT'S WHAT PUZZLES ME.

[/quote]

It's a good thing that the airway can't collapse, but a bad thing that you have your mouth taped shut and your nose sealed to a mask and hose. Nasal masks/pillows don't have the mechanism on them that Full Face masks have that keeps a large portion of the air that is exhaled from being continually re-breathed if the machine fails or is disabled. If this would happen, the drop in your blood O2 saturation would probably make you wake up and frantically rip the tape off or something like that; but is that something you want to test? I wouldn't recommend it.

There is a product called "Chin-ups" that are kind of like tape, but instead of covering your lips, they are kind of U-shaped and go under your bottom lip and then curl up both sides and anchor to your cheeks. When applied properly they hold your lips shut while you are relaxed, but with a little effort you can part your lips (mainly by raising the top lip). I don't see why someone wouldn't be able to do something similar with ordinary tape (like cutting the proper sized U-shape out of wide tape or something like that). The general rule is that if you can sip water with it on, then you should be ok.

I don't really personally recommend any of this stuff and have never really gotten anything to work AND be what I considered to be safe other than Full Face Mask; but if you're going to use tape, I think it would be much better to use it in such a way as to still be able to sip water.

That's just my opinion; and you know what opinions are like - they are like statements made with a lot of subjectivity. (That IS how the saying goes ISN'T it?)
[/quote]

[Shastzi]

Hi pdeli,
I'm with Archangle on the tape. Don't do it.
**
I would definitely do the full face mask bit.
There are many out there to choose from now, I'm sure you'll find one you can work with. I have my favorite now and two others for back ups!

The secret to getting a good seal is: "all sealing surfaces must be clean, dry and free of any grease"
So I clean & de-grease the mask before bed and wash my face with Dawn dish soap (non-concentrated)
It's a drag but it works.

Next, see if you can start using SleepyHead and collecting data from each night.
That will tell you where you're going, if the therapy is working or needs adjustment or if you need to run and see the doctor.
(nothing like a new hobby that also keeps you alive longer!)

Keep getting advise here and it will help get you on the straight track.

Cheers & good luck on your quest!

[pdeli]

Thanks for your input - the tape is history.

I have another issue here, and that is that I'm coming off of nearly 3 months of Shingles and dealing with lots of exhaustion, medication, and stomach cramps. I can't tell what's causing what so I need to sort that all first. I'm waiting for a call from both the sleep lab Doc and my primary Doc.

I like the software idea along with the "tune your own machine" approach, so I have a bunch of things to unravel here. This forum has been quite helpful, but I'm guessing you've all heard that before.

Phil

[quote='Shastzi'
Hi pdeli,
I'm with Archangle on the tape. Don't do it.
**
I would definitely do the full face mask bit.
There are many out there to choose from now, I'm sure you'll find one you can work with. I have my favorite now and two others for back ups!
:)
The secret to getting a good seal is: "all sealing surfaces must be clean, dry and free of any grease"
So I clean & de-grease the mask before bed and wash my face with Dawn dish soap (non-concentrated)
It's a drag but it works.

Next, see if you can start using SleepyHead and collecting data from each night.
That will tell you where you're going, if the therapy is working or needs adjustment or if you need to run and see the doctor.
(nothing like a new hobby that also keeps you alive longer!)

Keep getting advise here and it will help get you on the straight track.

Cheers & good luck on your quest!
[/quote]

[jdilegge]

First off, I don't understand the logic as to why anyone would want to go through all the grief of wearing chin straps and/or tape on their mouth and then having to hold your tongue in a certain position (and to always face West) while you sleep or other extremes when the simple problem of breathing through the mouth is easily remedied with a properly fitted Full Face Mask.
Ren

Ren, because women do not find snoring or face masks sexy. Also, my step-father-in-law dies wearing one of them, they are not 100%. So helping yourself by losing weight, eating right and what not is the better solution than cheating with a mask.

99% of Apnea cases are because one is too damned fat. Easy fix for that... I refuse to use a dumb looking mask.

[zonk]

99% of Apnea cases are because one is too damned fat. Easy fix for that... I refuse to use a dumb looking mask.

This is a misnomer, apneics comes in all shapes, sizes, and races
Not every apneic is overweight and not every overweight person is apneic, apneic can be skinny too
Loosing weight helps somewhat but does not helps if one have a large tongue or narrowed airways. also central apnea got nothing to do with being overweight. For sure everyone (apneic or not) can benefit avoiding junk food, eating fresh food and doing some exercise which is more important if one have a sedentary lifestyle. Your choice to use it or not but I encourage you to use it, if you were diagnosed with sleep apnea.
CPAP is treatment, not a cure ... unless the mask on nose or your face ... its not going to be helping you when you're sleeping.

Sleep disordered breathing (SDB)
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php..._%28SDB%29

[Franklyspeaking]

It seems like I remember reading a post that Vabydoc wrote about "training" your mouth to stay closed by using a chinstrap for a while and then trying to do without the chinstrap and see if that "trained" your mouth to stay closed.
That's been quite a while back though and my memmory is a bit shady.

I never read that post, but that is exactly what I did and it works. I keep my tongue glued to the roof of my mouth. With the suction I feel from my apap it discourages me from opening my mouth.

[Sleepster]

Also, my step-father-in-law dies wearing one of them, they are not 100%. So helping yourself by losing weight, eating right and what not is the better solution than cheating with a mask.

My father died wearing pajamas. Doesn't mean he'd still be alive if he were naked.

Apnea cases are because one is too damned fat. Easy fix for that... I refuse to use a dumb looking mask.

Get your affairs in order. Say your goodbyes to your loved ones. You'll continue to lead a miserable sleep-deprived life and die early of a heart attack or stroke.

Losing weight is a good idea if you're fat. Unfortunately, most people do not find the fix for that easy. And if you are committed to getting your weight down to a more healthy level, a CPAP machine is a big help. Improves your sex life, too.

Not wearing the mask because it makes you look bad is a mental error. People used to have the same attitude towards seat belts in cars, for example.