What I learned today about mini-apneas and fatigue or why SH is the bomb

[cate1898]

So back to what we were discussing latterly, what good is seeing FR20 and FR50? Does it indicate we should change anything? What's the purpose?

[Mark Douglas]

Simply gives you a way to score outside the sleep industry guidelines.
I'm of the opinion conventional medicine in the USA at least is geared to people being "not-sick" as opposed to "healthy".

If you want to play with it just do it. Changes the settings and see what results.
As I said previously I can have a 0AHI and feel like crap or an AHI of 3-5 and still feel good.
That is I can tolerate a few larger events better than a stream of little ones.

An AHI below 5 is considered "treated". Personally I am opposed to any amount of strangulation - but that's just me.

[AlanE]

As an FYI, FR50 and FR20 do not count against your AHI even though they will show in the pie chart. You can have a plethora of FR50/FR20 and a 0.00 AHI.

[Mark Douglas]

As an FYI, FR50 and FR20 do not count against your AHI even though they will show in the pie chart. You can have a plethora of FR50/FR20 and a 0.00 AHI.

Yeh I shoulda said that......

[Sleepster]

First find a mask that prevents mouth leakage and that is not going so well

What are the issues? Have you tried a chin strap? A full face mask?

[GPSMapNut]

Could you please clarify something for me;
20% and 50% represents by how much is the flow reduced or to what level it is reduced?
I mean, reduction by 20% is insignificant as compared to reduction to 20% of the original volume.

[kwhenrykerr]

Could you please clarify something for me;
20% and 50% represents by how much is the flow reduced or to what level it is reduced?
I mean, reduction by 20% is insignificant as compared to reduction to 20% of the original volume.

Yes please more info. Thanks Mark

[silverny1]

I just saw this thread and wanted to thank you for the method of seeing mini-apneas in SleepyHead AND especially for calling attention to the existence of fatigue despite low AHI scores. I have more to say on this below.

I made the change in my SH software, but as of now just see big chunks of the pie charts as UF2 and smaller chunks as UF1. Maybe new sleep sessions will begin to track the data as events.

Here is some further information to consider in trying to come to grips with the daytime fatigue issue. I would value your comments/input.

Due to my daytime fatigue (I typically need to take a nap by mid-afternoon and sometimes go back to sleep after breakfast), I bought a pulse oximeter to determine if I was having desaturation issues during the night that could be causing fatigue during the day.

The oximeter came with SpO2 Assistant software to display the data and, in addition, SleepyHead can import and display the pulse oximetry data. Both software programs display information on the number, duration, etc. of two types of events: "Desaturation Events" and "Pulse Rate Events."

It should be noted that the two programs define the events slightly differently. For example, SpO2 defines defines desaturation event as a drop in SpO2 by at least 4% for a minimum duration of 10 seconds, whereas SH defines desaturation event as a drop in SpO2 by at least 3% for a minimum duration of 8 seconds. Similarly, SpO2 defines pulse rate event as a change in rate by at least 6 bpm for a minimum duration of 8 seconds, whereas SH defines a pulse rate event as a change in rate by at least 5 bpm for a minimum duration of 8 seconds.

I used the pulse oximeter device for four weeks in April in conjunction with my VPAP. I also kept a diary of "sleepiness" issues, as well as recording my sleep time, AHI/hypopnea scores, use of alcohol, coffee/tea, and medications.

I found NO correlation between exceedingly low AHI scores and daytime fatigue. Over four weeks, only five AHIs were greater than 1.00 (highest was 1.63), two were 0.00, and the rest were less than 0.99 (21).

Alarmingly, the number of reported pulse rate events per sleep session (SH definition) ranged from mid-300s to OVER 800. By comparison, the SpO2 definition produced roughly one-half the number of pulse rate events per nightly session. Desaturation events were far fewer using either software definition. On SH they ranged from a low of 6 to as high as 235. On SpO2 they ranged from 3 to 29.

So, what did my physician say? I've delivered the chart to his office and sent it again by fax, but he hasn't responded to my calls. All of which suggests that he can't be bothered or, worse, has no idea. I also asked my Internist (who specializes in cardiac issues) for a better definition of the two types of events. He never got back to me...

Please let me know if you have resolved your daytime fatigue issues and what you did to help yourself. If you or anyone in the Forum has any input on the appropriate definitions for desaturation event or pulse rate event, I would be glad to know. Last, perhaps my experience may shed some light for you or others on the daytime fatigue issue. I wish my physicians cared a bit more, but I think the Forum members and readers may be a better source of help.

[BadGoodDeb]

Note: regarding "sometimes go to sleep after breakfast" -- I have this problem too, but have pretty clearly linked it to blood sugar issues. If I have any cold cereal for breakfast (even Cheerios) I get sleepy about 2 hours later. If I have a protein heavy breakfast (eggs, or walnuts, or chicken) then I am fine. I have a mild hypoglycemia.

So -- SOME daytime sleepiness can be from other issues.

But now I'm wondering about my SleepyHead numbers too. My AHI is usually below 0.11. I'm not particularly tired, but perhaps I could be even better!

[cate1898]

Just FYI from all the online and books I have been reading, people who are any-type of diabetic or even pre-diabetic would benefit from a ketogenic diet. Do your own research. And BadGoodDeb the protein heavy breakfast is a good ketogenic one!