herbs for Sleep Apnea

[storywizard]

I am in the midst of trying to figure out how to deal with my various breathing/sleep issues. I have just taken myself off of my CPAP machine and have been looking around at various "natural" alternatives.

I am trying Singing for Snorers, not working so far but its only been a month, however, my singing has improved vastly...:-)

I have found an article by a fellow who is an herbalist, he claims to have an idea that a few herbs will ease night time breathing, anyway, it is an interesting read and I have attached a PDF of it if you are interested..

all the best,



Storywizard

[archangle]

This sounds like dangerous new age quackery and claptrap to me.

It's going to discourage people with a serious medical condition from getting effective treatment.

Just because they use big words, doesn't mean there's science on their side.

What qualifies someone to be a "herbalist?"

[zonk]

What qualifies someone to be a "herbalist?"

PHD from university of Woolloomooloo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA

[PaulaO2]

The thing is, sleep apnea isn't exactly a "breathing" thing. I mean it is, but it isn't. It's a muscle and tissue thing that impacts our breathing.

The muscles we use to swallow and to move our tongue are voluntary muscles, meaning we consciously move them. So when we relax in sleep, they relax, too. Problem is, when they relax, they can (for various reasons) block the airway by falling back, taking the throat tissue with it. That's obstructive sleep apnea. This is why singing and learning to play the digeradoo (or however that is spelled) can help some people because it is working directly with those muscles and tissues.

Unless an herbal whatever can somehow shrink that tissue or keep those muscles from relaxing or somehow strengthen them, I don't see how they can work. Since your attachment is gone, I can't give an opinion on it.

[SuperSleeper]

I personally don't think that herbal medicines can completely remove the effects of sleep apnea, and I still believe that CPAP is the "gold standard" for treating obstructive sleep apnea.

That said, I think it's a mistake to completely discount the positive effects of some herbal remedies. When someone immediately discounts an herbal remedy without even checking what specific herbs are being referred to or without reading up on any of the effects of particular herbs, then this is as much quackery as the person who claims that herbal remedies are the solution to all of life's problems.

There needs to be a balance, not a complete discounting of something that may actually help someone achieve better quality of sleep simply because the method is using "herbs".

"Herbalists" in the 18th & 19th centuries made an extract from the bark of willow trees and gave it to patients with chronic headaches and other symptoms. Absurd "herbalist" quackery? I don't think so - look up the history of aspirin.

Why be closed-minded in these things?

[PaulaO2]

Exactly. I currently take an "herbal" supplement for my chronic pain and one of our dogs is on another to assist with her illness. Do they work? Does it matter as long as it makes me feel empowered and the symptoms of the dog have lessened?

I would like to see a non-caffeine, non-hyper something to assist with the afternoon nap attacks!

[storywizard]

[attachment=1009]

The thing is, sleep apnea isn't exactly a "breathing" thing. I mean it is, but it isn't. It's a muscle and tissue thing that impacts our breathing.

The muscles we use to swallow and to move our tongue are voluntary muscles, meaning we consciously move them. So when we relax in sleep, they relax, too. Problem is, when they relax, they can (for various reasons) block the airway by falling back, taking the throat tissue with it. That's obstructive sleep apnea. This is why singing and learning to play the digeradoo (or however that is spelled) can help some people because it is working directly with those muscles and tissues.

Unless an herbal whatever can somehow shrink that tissue or keep those muscles from relaxing or somehow strengthen them, I don't see how they can work. Since your attachment is gone, I can't give an opinion on it.

I have reattached the essay..

SW

[herbm]

I thought this thread was all about me "Herbs for sleep apnea" but since I am here anyway:

Get back on your machine and quit kidding yourself. If the herbs help, great but in the meantime get the simple and reliable therapy that is proven to work.

Not only is it proven to work you can see the results on your own machine (if you get one with data capabilities.)

Herbs don't 'work' for "broken legs" (even if they might help with trauma recovery AFTER the doc sets it.

[PaulaO2]

I'm sorry, Storywizard, but the writer of that article is incorrect on far too many points. I tried to read it with an open mind. I stopped when it got to the remedies themselves. I saw no reason to go further sense the premise for them was so flawed.

- almost always a CPAP is offered first, not last. At the same time, most patients are encouraged to lose weight (if obesity is an issue). Surgical intervention seems to be dropping down in preference and is saved until after CPAP compliance fails or the OSA is extreme.

- he uses the term palate but never seems to define which tissues he means by that. If he means the stereotypical palate that everyone thinks of (the roof of the mouth), then the average person is going to assume the roof of their mouth drops down and closes the airway

- his theory about the relaxing neck/back muscles trapping the nerve signals was confusing. If I understood it correctly, then we would have bigger problems than OSA.

- his theory about shallow breathing resulting in low O2 doesn't stand either. Not all of us see a drop in sat rates. And if that is what he thinks a hypopnea is, he is incorrect.

I'll stop at this point because from there, his theory is on such unstable ground, I can't keep up.

Sleep apnea is not based on us having screwing signals to our diaphragm. If that were true, then everyone would have OSA. So how come only some of us have it? How come some of us have it when we are/were younger and not "older with sagging palates"?

Thanks for sharing this, though. It is good to keep track of what else is out there. Because some day, someone will come up with something from a different angle and it will actually work.

[storywizard]

I'm sorry, Storywizard, but the writer of that article is incorrect on far too many points. I tried to read it with an open mind. I stopped when it got to the remedies themselves. I saw no reason to go further sense the premise for them was so flawed.

- almost always a CPAP is offered first, not last. At the same time, most patients are encouraged to lose weight (if obesity is an issue). Surgical intervention seems to be dropping down in preference and is saved until after CPAP compliance fails or the OSA is extreme.

- he uses the term palate but never seems to define which tissues he means by that. If he means the stereotypical palate that everyone thinks of (the roof of the mouth), then the average person is going to assume the roof of their mouth drops down and closes the airway

- his theory about the relaxing neck/back muscles trapping the nerve signals was confusing. If I understood it correctly, then we would have bigger problems than OSA.

- his theory about shallow breathing resulting in low O2 doesn't stand either. Not all of us see a drop in sat rates. And if that is what he thinks a hypopnea is, he is incorrect.

I'll stop at this point because from there, his theory is on such unstable ground, I can't keep up.

Sleep apnea is not based on us having screwing signals to our diaphragm. If that were true, then everyone would have OSA. So how come only some of us have it? How come some of us have it when we are/were younger and not "older with sagging palates"?

Thanks for sharing this, though. It is good to keep track of what else is out there. Because some day, someone will come up with something from a different angle and it will actually work.

You know I asked that this post be taken off, I will remove the article, and bid you all a goodnight..

SW