Welcome to Apnea Board !
As a guest, you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.
To post a message, you must create a free account using a valid email address.
Login or Create an Account
I recently purchased the Breas Z2 portable cpap machine and I'm having a hard time figuring how to solve my problem of not being able to really exhale out (nasal pillow user) as there is too much pressure coming in. I'm not 100% sure what APAP pressure I should have it set at but it seems all 3 settings (APAP-1 to 3) I'm struggling to breath out through my nasal pillows.
Anyone here familiar with this machine maybe steer me in the right direction? I've watched several youtube videos but I'm still thinking I don't have a setting or two down correctly. I'm going to reach out to the manufacturer to see if they can offer any assistance along with my sleep doctor's office to see if they can also assit.
I'm not familiar with your machine, but just a short Google search tells me that to set the Exhale Pressure Relief, you choose Apap-1, Apap-2, or Apap-3.
You should use Apap-3 if you're having trouble breathing out against the pressure.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Are you running the "very" slimline tubing from Breas?
I use a Z2 as my travel unit when space is tight (motorcycle, etc.). I noticed the same effect you did when switching from my S10 Auto, it feels like Z-breathe works "opposite" from EPR on the S10. My perception is that it ramps up pressure when I breathe OUT rather than in (or at least that's what it feels like). It's better on Z-breathe 3, but the motor gets really noisy to the point I can't get to sleep, so I ended up on Z-breathe 2. My guess is that the control algorithm is "slowing" the motor aggressively on Z-breathe 3 but not as much on Z-breathe 2. On Z3, If I hold it in my hand, it will rock back and forth as I breathe in and out, it won't do that on Z-Breathe 2. Would be nice to look at some of the data on this unit but support is limited.
I have the VERY slimline Breas tubing as space is an issue, so I'm wondering if my tidal volume, inspire time, and full mask combined with the small diameter hose is confusing the controls at the unit. I'm the size of an NFL lineman. My baseline for the auto is 8 and usually isn't much over 10 unless I'm dead tired or end up with my chin tucked.
Compromises were made to get to this point and my AHI stays low, just wish I'd get the "assist" the way my home S10 unit does as it feels effortless and lulls me to sleep, even at higher pressures. I'm not willing to sacrifice an entire saddlebag to get there though.
I might experiment with it by putting standard tubing on it and see if that "fixes" the issue. In my case, it's less about the mass of the items, but the space, so maybe a standard tube that's shorter will be the way to go.
03 May 2023 update:
I tried several configurations last night with my Z2 tying to get Z-breathe to work for me. All tests were run on Z-breathe 3.
First was removing all the tubing and using a generic 2m (6.5 foot) 22mm tube, no Q-tube (muffler), no HME filter. The Z-breathe really worked well in this configuration and it felt like my Airsense 10. However the motor was screaming down the tube (especially on inhalation) and I couldn't get to sleep.
Second I added the HME filter to my mask. This cut the noise a little, but not enough for me to tolerate it.
Third I added the Q-tube (muffler) and the short "extra-slim" slimline 8" adapter to my 2m tube and kept the HME filter. It was quiet. Z-breathe was not effective like this, and I had the same problem as before, where the pressure is "opposite" of what I expected. I could sense my mask getting closer as I breathed in then surging away as the system caught up. The motor was back to going bonkers with the speed control again. So, the flow limitation must be in that first section of hose, or at least the most significant portion of the limitation.
The plan going forward: I ordered some shorter 18" (about 0.5m) long 22mm diameter tubes meant to connect external humidifiers and I'm going to mimic the Z2 slimline setup with this as best I can with the larger diameter tubes. I've got tubing connectors, so I can just add them end-to-end and get about the right length. Hopefully this gives the unit enough signal to have Z-breathe work as intended but still keeps the muffler in the system so it doesn't feel like Pratt and Whitney built the thing.
23MAY2023 update: The standard diameter tubes arrived (finally!) and I was able to test out my fix: A 2 foot long tube, then the Breas Q-tube muffler, then a 4 foot tube. It's as close as I could get to the original setup, it's pretty much the same length.
Results: It's a new machine! The Z-breathe works as expected and it's not "chasing it's tail" with no discernible dips or surges in pressure at the mask, other than the Z-breathe exhalation reduction. Marked improvement from the slimline tubing it came with. It's just the standard motor "whine" now, which I can easily block out with a pillow because it's high frequency. Before the motor was racing then braking and more or less unusable because of all the racket and pressure surges that were inverted (lower pressure inhaling and higher exhaling).
I ran through my masks and it seems that with me on the other end, the Z2 "doesn't like" masks with higher built-in leakage (more vent holes and/or larger diameter), as that would make it less stable and more prone to surges and dips, it must be tickling a flow limit somewhere. It liked a nasal only mask the best, but I don't, so I'll have to work on that a bit. Trying chin straps and mouth tape to see if I can get there. I usually end up with the flow blasting out of my mouth and waking up.
By the way, I also tried increasing the minimum set pressure from my usual up to 12 with the slimline tubing. If anything it makes the issues worse. I think it's because my reaction to higher pressure is to inhale faster and more deeply (isn't that the point?) rather than the unit itself. It was an idea...
Hope this helps someone else who might be struggling with their travel unit: They might have gone "too far" in trying to make it ultra portable and a larger diameter tube might be worth the additional space, from a mass standpoint, it's essentially the same.
Thanks. I just received a Z2 I ordered, and setting it up for a trip starting in a few days.
I am having the same resistance to exhalation and am doing to start changing the Z breathe settings around.
I dont have any wider tubing at the moment unfortunately
Did you find that the humidification thingy impeded flow at all, or that had no effect?
ok, based on your post, I will try to get some larger 22mm tubing ASAP prior to my weekend trip and see how that goes.
I did some more experimentation, by setting it to CPAP at 9, and then fiddling around with the various Z-breathe modes. Thinking back to physics, and that longer tubing has more resistance, I went to the shortest tube setup I could, and that helped reduce the expiration resistance a tiny bit. But then I wonder, is the real limitation the tiny opening of the device that requires an adapter to the tubing? maybe that tiny opening , plus the way the motor is set up, are the main two issues with this factor of difficulty exhaling?
I changed around between the 3 Z-breathe settings. I agree that setting 3 is crazy. Setting 2 seems the best possible one of the three, but I still have trouble exhaling compared to my Airsense11. Setting 1 has minimal adjustment and its tough to exhale.
Then I thought that, the Z2 does not have any specific change you can make for masks in the setting.....so....I thought to switch mask. I initially was using my P10 nasal pillows and with nasal, found it really hard to exhale just blowing through the nose. I then switched to my F&P Vitera and it was a bit better with exhaling, I somehow did not have as much exhaling difficulty with the FFM. I"m not sure if that is what you found though? I see you have a VItera mask.
If I cant get it to work better with larger tubing, then I may go on the trip with it and with my Vitera mask and see how it goes (other advantage of Vitera rather than my nasal pillows is that then I dont have to worry about taking mouth tape etc etc with me - with the nasal pillows I need to tape my mouth.).
If not, I could take my larger Airsense 11 I guess....
I recently purchased the Breas Z2 portable cpap machine and I'm having a hard time figuring how to solve my problem of not being able to really exhale out (nasal pillow user) as there is too much pressure coming in. I'm not 100% sure what APAP pressure I should have it set at but it seems all 3 settings (APAP-1 to 3) I'm struggling to breath out through my nasal pillows.
Anyone here familiar with this machine maybe steer me in the right direction? I've watched several youtube videos but I'm still thinking I don't have a setting or two down correctly. I'm going to reach out to the manufacturer to see if they can offer any assistance along with my sleep doctor's office to see if they can also assit.
Thank you
I had this issue and emailed the company who said: "I am sorry but the three Z-Breathe settings are the only adjustments.
I am afraid there are no other adjustments you can make."
So, I'm going to try a change in tube size, as RemHunter has mentioned in this thread.
So, I took mine on a trip and I got it to work! Thanks to REMhunter (and youtube) I figured the settings out. However, the z-breathe settings are SH*T.
It's too late for me to return it, so I too might try different tubing and see if that works. Looking forward to your findings Bostonsnow!
(06-07-2023, 04:52 PM)acctingman Wrote: So, I took mine on a trip and I got it to work! Thanks to REMhunter (and youtube) I figured the settings out. However, the z-breathe settings are SH*T.
It's too late for me to return it, so I too might try different tubing and see if that works. Looking forward to your findings Bostonsnow!
Thanks
Which Z-breathe setting did you decide on? I agree they all are useless ! I cant decide right now whether setting 2 or 3 are less-bad.
I also cannot return it so i',m stuck with it
I have ordered 2 pieces of 18 inch tubing that is 22mm diameter in the tube (and the opening). So similar to RemHunter, I'll put those on either side of the muffler thing, so 3 feet total. Will report back as to whether it helps.
