DIY Supercharged humidification

[farnsy]

In short: It doesn't seem like the humidifier in my CPAP does nearly enough. I have it set to the max but my nose gets super dry overnight anyway (as does my mouth, if it opens). The air feels pretty dry to me. 

I recall the CPAP during my titration study was able to pump out a real amount of humidification--that's what I want. My sinuses tend to get irritated in the night and swell up. Since using the CPAP it's better than it was and I think the current humidity is a major contributor to that improvement, but it could be improved.

(1) Is it really the case that the "humdification" in these machines simply occurs as air blows across the top of the (warm) water? That doesn't seem like a very effective mechanism, especially as the air flow increases (like, when I have a mask leak in the night--I notice the dry more intensely on those nights).

(2) Has anyone ramped up their humdity by pre-humidifying the intake air?

What I'm thinking is getting a small ultrasonic room humidifier (as little as possible) and putting it and my CPAP in a large tub together so the intake air from the CPAP will already be humid. If I fill the humidifier with distilled water, it shouldn't push any white dust into the CPAP and if it's very small, I shouldn't affect the room humidity much--I don't particularly want my room to get moist. If the effect is not strong enough, I could partially cover the tub. By the way I can't use a warm humidifier because I live in a very hot area and I don't need any more heat in my room. 

What do you think? Crazy? I suppose this will make cleaning out my hose a more important duty if it does work. Anything else I should watch out for?

[Melman]

(1) Is it really the case that the "humdification" in these machines simply occurs as air blows across the top of the (warm) water?  on those nights).

YES, that's the mechanism.
(2) Has anyone ramped up their humdity by pre-humidifying the intake air?

What I'm thinking is getting a small ultrasonic room humidifier (as little as possible) and putting it and my CPAP in a large tub together so the intake air from the CPAP will already be humid. 
I would worry about condensation in the machine causing damage.

What do you think? Crazy? I suppose this will make cleaning out my hose a more important duty if it does work. Anything else I should watch out for?

As you probably know, the humidifier will need to be cleaned regularly also, if you go that route. Don't count on distilled water preventing microbial growth. Water bacteria grow quite nicely in it and the water you buy for around a dollar a gallon is not sterile.

[Sleeprider]

Farnsy, most people that complain of the air being too dry seem to be experiencing a high leak rate. There are better ways to improve the humidification that you perceive at the mask than to humidify or mist the whole room, however having your room humidity at a reasonable level will help your machine's humidification. You are apparently in DFY, so in winter your home's interior humidity may be fairly low. I think ifyou shoot for a relative humidity of 60% it could be beneficial. Above that, and your windows and colder surfaces will start to have dew. You might want to get a humidistat to monitor where you're at. They can be purchased with temperature and humidity display for under $20 on Amazon.

An ultrasonic humidifier will work to keep the air in your room more comfortable and will assist the CPAP humidifier. Just don't over-do it to where you have condensing water.

[farnsy]

Farnsy, most people that complain of the air being too dry seem to be experiencing a high leak rate.

You are definitely right about that. I just switched from a small Vitera mask to a medium. The former gives me a nasty red mark on the nose and cheeks but doesn't leak much--when it does leak it shoots air into my eyes and wakes me. The latter is very comfy but my leak rate is dramatically higher, all though the bottom of my face, which doesn't wake me. I've tried the medium both with and without remzzzs but have not tried the small with them yet.

I thought a little about additional humidification with the small mask but with the large it is a critical issue. After switching to the medium, I feel very dry indeed and have had significantly more sinus problems. Tonight I'm going back to the small, with the addition of a remzzzs to see if it helps. Alternatively I could try the medium with lanolin. The next step in my journey is to try a nose only mask, but I don't know what I'll do if I get a stuffy sinus in that case. Insurance won't buy me a different type of mask for another 6 weeks, so I will likely buy one cash to try. Open to suggestions on that.

As a side note (as I mentioned in a different thread) I'm thinking about swapping out my dreamstation for a resmed while I'm still renting. Someone around here said they thought the humidifer in the latter might be more effective. I guess lots of things to try and I only like to change one thing per night. Gonna be a while before everything is where I want it.

BTW, I had in mind a humidifier that is too small to significantly affect the room I'm in (I also have a fan blowing my air out of the room all night). That's why I was thinking of putting my CPAP and humidifier in a bin together. Basically the humid air would leave the humidifier and go straight to the CPAP. I could control the level of ingoing humidity by restricting the open area of the top of the bin. Just my first idea on the subject. I'm a bit of a tinkerer.

[Sleeprider]

I would not confine your machine in a small space with a humidifier. I think that is asking for water damage that will not be covered under warranty. I'm just a guy on the internet, but please don't.

I would never argue against swapping a Philips for Resmed. I'm certain you will find it more comfortable, however your problem is mask leaks, and you need to keep looking until you find a style and size that works. You might like a hybrid style like Amaera View or even the Dreamwear Full Face. These masks do not cover the bridge of your nose, but cover your mouth and apply pressure to the bottom of the nose like nasal pillows. I'm certain you are trying to use humidity to fix a mask fit problem, and you will ultimately be frustrated or break something. Take a look at the Mask Primer wiki http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php/Mask_Primer

[DaveL]

I believe the most important part of my therapy is mask selection. The proper mask really improves my sleep quality.
Mask leakage really affects me.
Mask age is a factor for me too. They don't last as long as they used to; but they work better.

[farnsy]

FYI, I put my plans to supercharge humidification on hold. Instead I'm swapping out my dreamstation for an S10 (for her) and I'm going to try some other masks, starting with a nose only mask.  Full face masks are for the birds, though I'm not sure whether I will ultimately keep my mouth shut with a nose-only mask. Will have to see about that.

After I've used the new machine and several new masks, if I still feel like I want more water in my air, I'll revisit.

[DaveL]

Excellent news.
My score this morning, and two days ago was 0.0 using my old S9 E and an N20 mask, and a home made cushion under my jaw to keep my mouth shut. My unit is a cpap unit; I would love to have the unit that you are buying.

EXCEPT

an old mechanic told me at a summer job. "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" (Thanks Bill Flannigan!)

[Osiris357]

A heated hose will help you after you get your leaks under control. Auto climate control may help all on its own. If you do get a resmed try auto first then go from there. There are many different setting combinations to choose from with the ClimateLine hose. I have mine set on auto humidity and a hose temp of 75F. I may drop that to 72F or so because my nose is a bit too moist in the morning. This is a relatively easy problem to fix. Good luck

[Nitrous]

At least with the resmed AirSense 10, the water chamber sits on a hot plate.  This is after the turbine.  I would not want to inject saturated air into the intake of the turbine pump.  That’s a recipe for disaster.  

This isn’t medical advice because it’s not a medical question.  I’m a retired anesthesiologist.  Add moisture to the sir after the pump, not before.  Fwiw, I’m thinking about adding something to my travel CPAP- AirMini.  2 weeks using a heat, moisture exchanger disc didn’t provide me with enough moisture.  This was Berlin last week.  Very damp but cold.  

That’s a recipe would be my non-professional opinion from a scientist’s perspective.  
Doug