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Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
#1
Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
New APAP user, curious to the thoughts of this forum:

Backround: My in-lab sleep study reported mild OA in the 5.5 AHI range (10 AHI when on my back).  There was very little central apnea reported (< 1/hour).  It was going to be months before sleep doctor would see me. My health is normal otherwise, but I've been extremely tired, so I bought an airsense machine of my own accord hoping I might get some relief. The CPAP store clinician set it up for me.  He put it in autoset mode at 5-15 cm pressure, with EPR at 3. 

I've been watching the results in OSCAR.

After a week, OAI is was under 1 consistently (often under 0.5), but CAI was between 1.5 - 3.5.  The machine reported a 95th percentile of 6-7 pressure each night. 

I started lowering the max pressure every few days, hoping it might lower CA events. I ended up at 5-7 cm pressure and the OAI is still well under 1, but CAI still 1.5 - 2.0 AH each night.

After 2 weeks he emailed me with the official resmed report, and suggested increasing max pressure to 10 (which he did set remotely). He said he thought this was advisable in order to bring down AHI.  On his report from Resmed it shows these averages: 

AHI 3.3
CAI 1.3
OAI 0.3
UAI 1.6

In my OSCAR report for past 30 days it shows:

AHI 1.9
CAI 1.45
OAI 0.34
UAI 0.08

I think I have one more day of data than his report, so that's why the CAI and OAI #s could be a bit off, but the UAI discrepancy is odd. My questions/request for comment:

1. Doesn't it seem odd that his report shows unclassified apneas at 1.6/hour, when mine shows effectively 0?  FWIW, the only UA events I see in OSCAR were from one time I ran the machine to dry out my hose and mask, and even on that single day it was only a 0.6 UAI. The clinician believes my total AHI is 3.3 whereas OSCAR says that it's 1.9 (due to the UAI discrepancy).. Is it common to have discrepancies like this?

2. I don't understand why he would increase the max pressure when OA is already near 0.  If anything I was wondering if I should try lowering the minimum pressure to 4cm and leaving the max at 7. My understanding is that more pressure will not help control CA events and could make them worse. Any thoughts on this?

FWIW, I'm not sure that the machine has relieved my tiredness so far, but I do feel like I'm sleeping more soundly at night, and waking up less, and my wife loves that I'm not snoring. I've been using it for 2 weeks, and still getting used to it, so want to keep going to see if my condition improves over time.
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#2
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
OK a few things that I've seen in the Apnea Board before. Anything I'll say is opinion based but can be linked as well to best practice.

I want to start at pressures. 5 as your min will not allow EPR 3 to work fully. EPR may also be affecting your respiratory efficiency, maybe more efficient than prior to CPAP. Now this enhanced breathing efficiency has upset your natural balance of CO2, which may well trigger centrals (CA).

Based on that, I would lower EPR to 1 if you want to maintain Min of 5. See if CA decreased.

BTW here's how EPR and min pressure works,
Min 5 and EPR 1 equals modified min 4
Min 6 and EPR 2 equals modified min 4
Min 7 and EPR 3 equals modified min 4

Both pressure and EPR are measured in cmH2O on a ResMed.

The minimum lowest mechanical and physical pressure your CPAP goes is 4 cmH2O. EPR will never force it below 4 cmH2O.

PS when I had a machine, doctors did not remotely control my settings. Consider revoking permission.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
Thanks for that info SarcasticDave94, makes sense. I could try lowing EPR to 1... That said, I see a lot of CA happening while the pressure is at (or near) 5. So I whether EPR is set to 1 or 3, the pressure is still going between 5 on inhale to 4 on exhale (e.g. changing that setting won't have much effect).

CAI seems to be getting worse unfortunately. It was at 6 two nights ago and 3.3 last night. 6 is higher than my initial in-lab OAI result from my sleep test. I worry that I'm developing treatment emergent CA...
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#4
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
Post OSCAR charts for review. See my .sig for links to more details on how to do so.
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#5
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
Welcome.
It is always best to post daily charts.

First the amount of CAI you have indicated is of little to no concern.

Your approach is wrong. Differential pressure from EPR is often the cause of some treatment emergent central apnea, TECA, resulting from excess CO2 being flushed from your system. First moves should be to reduce EPR. Because your min pressure is under 7 your EPR varies which makes it hard to corelate. Reducing EPR also often results in an increase in obstructive events. You should also realize that in some individuals the simple use of a CPAP can, not will, cause TECA.
Our bodies main drive to breathe is from the need to remove excess CO2 from our body.
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#6
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
Gideon, thank you for that explanation!  I've posted screenshots from the last two nights. The screenshot from 2 nights ago is the one with AHI 6.42, and EPR was at 3.  The screenshot from last night is the one with AHI 3.96 and I had switched EPR to 1.  The third screenshot is showing how CA has trended since I began using the machine 2 weeks ago -- not a lot of data yet, but it seems to be increasing.


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#7
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
Now try EPR off.

And which feels better , EPR = 1 or Off?
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#8
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
OK, I can give that a shot. I think I might prefer the feeling of having it on while I fall asleep, but my understanding from what you said is that having 0 EPR will cause less CO2 to be exhaled, which will in turn increase the brain's urgency to breath in fresh O2 (and possibly lower CA).
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#9
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
Almost.
Oxygen, or rather the need for it, may (not will) cause you to breathe faster. It will not help you initiate a breath.

"which will in turn increase the brain's urgency to breathe in fresh O2 (and possibly lower CA)"
should read
which will in turn increase the brain's urgency to remove/exhale CO2 (and possibly lower CA)

Oxygen really has very little to do with it at this stage.

Obviously this all depends on the cause of the central, but this IS the most common.
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#10
RE: Discrepancy between Resmed Clinician report and OSCAR
(10-05-2023, 04:25 PM)Gideon Wrote: should read
which will in turn increase the brain's urgency to remove/exhale CO2 (and possibly lower CA)

Got it, thank you for the clarification!
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