Discussion on alternate treatments for sleep apnea

[G. Szabo]

Abstract:
Upper airway muscle function plays a major role in maintenance of the upper airway patency and contributes to the genesis of obstructive sleep apnea syndrome (OSAS). Preliminary results suggested that oropharyngeal exercises derived from speech therapy may be an effective treatment option for patients with moderate OSAS.

This study demonstrates that when obese or overweight patients perform systematic exercises targeting their face, neck, and tongue muscles multiple times a day under supervision per week, their neck circumference decreases; coincidentally, their moderate or mild apnea improves. Hence, the positive outcome is demonstrated only for a narrow set of the OSA patient class under very demanding circumstances. 

Previous studies show that reducing the BMI of overweight or obese individuals decreases neck circumference. Coincidentally, their apne symptoms improve. 

Hence, the following question arises: Is oropharyngeal exercise or BMI reduction more efficient in reducing OSA symptoms? This is a crucial question because while techniques for BMI reduction are available for the whole population and can be done with no or minimal supervision, the above-referred intervention will be available for a minute fraction of some narrow elit groups.

The interesting question is: If we reduce the neck's circumference by reducing BMI, will the oropharyngeal training provide additional benefit? 

There is no way that oropharyngeal training can be a practical alternative to CPAP treatment or BMI reduction.

[krzysztof]

The fact that there is not enough scientific evidence doesn't mean that natural methods don't work. Some maybe not, and some only for a certain group of people as no treatment is universal.

However, I know from the first hand that natural method may work. It worked for me wonders. When I started practicing Buteyko method it literally changed my life.

[Narcil]

He's not selling anything, and the evidence on the matter is quite strong.

authors don't sell anything now? the evidence is miles away from quite strong not that he would know.

if you want to take pseudo medical advice from journalists (or marketing bros) trying to sell you books instead of scientists have at it, but it's ill advised.

[PeaceLoveAndPizza]

I am open to other ways of addressing sleep apnoea, even from those selling their books. The current de rigeuer experts on breathing are neither scientists nor doctors, they are simply restating various yoga breathing techniques, not providing scientific evidence to their effectiveness.

The thing to do is go forth and prove the hypothesis. Use your CPAP for a few months and subjectively rank your sleep for quality, quantity, and restfulness. Now follow their breathing strategies for a few months and do the same without CPAP. Now compare and report back. If it works it is another tool in the sleep apnoea toolbox. If not, you are out the cost of a few books.

If it the breathing works for you, great. If wearing a duck on your head works, that is fine as well. Anything to get a good nights rest is fair game.

[G. Szabo]

if you want to take pseudo medical advice from journalists (or marketing bros) trying to sell you books instead of scientists have at it, but it's ill advised.

You are hitting the nail on the head.

[Breathworker]

definitely is snake oil

I know. Keeping one's mouth closed and breathing through the nose is definitely snake oil. No scientific evidence to back up the benefits of that up whatsoever.  

I've posted a few things from Patrick McKeown (and I'll post more since it seems to get a reaction out of you, which I'm starting to enjoy), and other "snake oil salesmen". The medical/pharmaceutical industry has no vested self-interests and isn't motivated by profit, by the way, right? Covid certainly proved that, didn't it?

What I posted from Patrick McKeown is on the 4 phenotypes of sleep apnea, the apnea hypopnea index, and the benefits of nasal breathing to open the airwaves, and to increase oxygen intake via slow, dep diaphragmatic breathing, and why breathing light and slow is better than hard and fast. Why don't you post some random thoughts and observations that quickly come to mind on all that, since you know so much? Can you do that without first searching the internet? Patrick McKeown can, and on a whole lot more. Can you?

[SeePak]

Been using CPAP for 35 years.
Still waking up tired, fatigued etc.
At one time it did seem like i could get a good nights sleep.
Not now...

So.

Just last night had another sleep study.
No results, yet.

I have listened to half of this video, and....

this has me stopped in my tracks!

Was asking for a Resmed air curve V-auto, as suggested on this apnea board.
And i still want it...

However, everything that this person is talking about resonates with my situation , both physically AND mentally!!

I will gladly provide feedback as i practice these techniques.

One piece of feedback i can give is i began doing Rocobado exercises on advice from a caring Dental Hygienist.
I stopped doing them as a routine, but will begin again in earnest.
My feedback here is that i am conciously aware, when i realize it, that i almost always have my tongue on the roof of my mouth!
So the knowledge and small amount of training i did has already got me doing this subconsciously.
I am sure with more strictness in doing these exercises, i will have results !!

Oh, and BTW, in the short couple months of using this website, i have dropped my 95% leak rate from 40% to 7 % just because i followed some advice from people on this forum!!
I expect this latest video will help as well.

[Breathworker]

Very pleased to see some of the replies on this thread. Being new here and very much into searching for alternative cures to the root cause(s) of sleep apnea, I was not sure how I'd be received. One individual in particular seems to have a problem with what I post, but I guess that's to be expected. The rest seem appreciative and/or receptive. 

SeePak, your post is especially gratifying. I have not been dealing with sleep apnea nearly as long as you, although mine probably did go undiagnosed for many years, but I have no idea for how long. I've endured a small stroke, heart surgery, major urological issues, orthopedic issues, and a host of other ailments, but nothing has made feel as horrible and as hopeless as this insomnia into sleep apnea has. That's why I search continuously for answers and potential remedies.

[PeaceLoveAndPizza]

This discussion will be moved to the off-topic review forum. This forum is for CPAP and sleep apnoea therapy. That forum is for discussion of things that are not yet scientifically proven, opinions, and all sorts of interesting topics. 

You are welcome to debate things there.

[Breathworker]

I may start playing one, or try to play one.

Apparently practicing on it can be quite beneficial for sleep apnea.

https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/10.1164/...0806-981OC

https://sleep.biomedcentral.com/articles...23-00095-z
[/url]
[url=https://breathepa.org/sleep-apnea-just-didgeridoo-it/]https://breathepa.org/sleep-apnea-just-didgeridoo-it/


https://www.didgeproject.com/didge-for-s...eep-apnea/