Discussion on alternate treatments for sleep apnea

[Arik]

Which article are you referring to? (few were mentioned).
 
BTW, Many members here (including me) are using cervical collar. There is no scientific prove however it works!

[SeePak]

Arik, I'm referring to the article about breathing exercises Etc by McKeown which I believe started this thread.
I too use a cervical collar the Caldera releaf

[SeePak]

sorry, i need to correct my last statement about Oscar results for minute ventilation and BPM....
I had changed from full face Dreamware hybrid mask to Dreamware nasal mask AND taped middle of lips AND wore chin strap for last 2 days! 
(apples to oranges type thing for sure!)

As far as the breathing exercise for holding breath, i am doing that in earnest, 4-6 times per day, holding my breath from 22 to 27 seconds.
This is giving me energy, it seems, when middle of my days have been very fatigued and tired, even when i have now lowered my AHI to <5
Very fascinating, this McKeown guy and his studies......
'Breathing Re-Education and Phenotypes of Sleep Apnea: A Review Patrick McKeown 1 , Carlos O’Connor-Reina 2,3 and Guillermo Plaza 4,5,' 

Still need to figure out my Phenotype so i can tailor the exercises to my type.

[SeePak]

You are hitting the nail on the head.

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail !?

[G. Szabo]

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail !?

Ok. Let's forget the idioms. I wanted to say that he was right, and I agree. 

In addition, someone above argued that adherence to the CPA is not too high; therefore,  alternative options might be a solution. Well, let's discuss adherence to some other alternatives, like losing and maintaining weight by diet change or visiting the gym regularly. Adherence to these alternatives is lower than adherence to CPAP. 

So, what might be the adherence to these novel techniques, like playing an instrument daily that requires neck muscles or visiting breathing training sessions delivered by professional trainers every week while simultaneously performing some special exercises at home multiple times a day? I guess the outcome of a study on this issue would be bitterly sobering. 

Furthermore, these alternatives only partially reduce the AHI. At the same time, a professionally selected and fine-tuned CPAP/APAP treatment can lower the AHI to less than five or even less than one. There are quite a few such examples, including mine. 

Oh, I forgot to mention the additional benefits of some of these alternatives. Until the next hype emerges, they can be a more fashionable topic for chatting at parties than CPAP.

[SeePak]

Einstein said that 51% to the solution of a problem is correctly identifying the problem.

The work and science behind keeping our mouths closed while breathing is so sound it compelled me to investigate further.

I have been advised on this board to tape my mouth closed and or use a full face mask both well meaning and good sounding ideas.

I immediately tried both of those ideas with some success.
But I just couldn't keep tearing that tape off my mouth and the chin strap was still allowing me to open my mouth somewhat while sleeping.

Now this Patrick McEwen also said to tape and or somehow keep your mouth shut while sleeping and all day as well.

Because I read and feel I understood what he was saying and took the next step to try I found out it was monumental in my travels for finding a good way to get great sleep.

For me it was the knowledge that does it, people can tell me stuff till they're blue in the face, if I don't get the understanding behind it I just don't get it and I just can't move past my previous filters and biases.

I will be posting subjective and I believe objective data to illuminate these understandings and how their practice has helped me with my sleep apnea and most importantly my sleep.

Anxiety and stress are killing us humans.

Let's correctly identify the root cause(s) and work on the solutions together.

We can make a difference!

[Breathworker]

"So, what might be the adherence to these novel techniques, like playing an instrument daily that requires neck muscles or visiting breathing training sessions delivered by professional trainers every week while simultaneously performing some special exercises at home multiple times a day? I guess the outcome of a study on this issue would be bitterly sobering."

I don't know, Szabo, I don't know if such a study has ever been performed. We do know what the compliance rate with oral appliances and CPAP machines are, and it's not too high. I do see your point, though, but I think an outcome that is "bitterly sobering" would be just that - your guess. Everyone is different but there are studies showing the effectiveness of alternative treatments. They probably don't work for everyone, but they must for some. 

I'm glad CPAP has worked well for you.

I'll find out how they work for me. What I am interested in finding out is if one breathes through their nose lightly, slowly, and gently overnight, will this cut down on the number of apneas one experiences while sleeping? Does mouth breathing - hard, fast shallow chest breathing that sucks in too much air too rapidly - cause the airways to constrict and/or collapse while sleeping because of the effect of negative pressure? Patrick McKeown thinks so.

Before I post this video, I just want to say that a frustrating experience for me was when I found out the polysomnography I took does not measure the time one spends mouth breathing as opposed to nasal breathing. It's a damn shame it doesn't. That would seem to be as important a bit of information as ones' AHI or blood O2 saturation levels. I would think that the percentage of people with sleep apnea who are mouth breathers is much higher than those who are nasal breathers.

SeePak, check your inbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko55JK4ZOM8 Some talk of Christian Guilleminault in this video. Apparently he would agree.

[G. Szabo]

BTW, Many members here (including me) are using cervical collar. There is no scientific prove however it works!

When you read the success stories of our members about the collar, you change your mind.

[G. Szabo]

Everyone is different but there are studies showing the effectiveness of alternative treatments. They probably don't work for everyone, but they must for some. 

 You are right. I wish you success with your adventure.

[G. Szabo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko55JK4ZOM8 Some talk of Christian Guilleminault in this video. Apparently he would agree.

I checked out the video you suggested. 

Conclusion: He wants us to learn nose breathing because it opens airways and reduces sleep apnea. He demonstrates it with the effectiveness of the chinstrap, the tool we have been using and advocating on this forum. In addition, we also suggest mouth taping (I have been doing it, too), which ensures 100 % nose breathing. So you are knocking on an open door.  

Unfortunately,  with all those fine-tunings of "alternatives," the vast majority of our diagnosed members need the CPAP/APAP machines additionally.