EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA

[Timur]

I've found this thread very interesting and want to say thanks for all the information and views provided. 

I stopped using my Airfit  P10 a few years ago. 

I liked it when I was using it, however one thing that always bothered me is that the vents would turn a brownish colour within days of usage.  I began to think this was just the norm. But I never felt comfortable with this and it worried me. No amount of scrubbing and cleaning was able to restore the vents to their original colour and appearance. 

I would often check to make sure there was  air coming out of the vents because visually it didn't look good, actually it would gross me out a bit.  


 I want my CPAP to be as effortless as possible (I don't like scrubbing and cleaning vents every single day) and so I was relieved to find that the Dreamwear nasal cushion mask doesn't have this problem and all I need to do is wipe it off with a baby wipe each morning.  

Fortunately in my case the P10 vents  never got to the point of getting blocked, but I really do think that there is a design flaw with the mask that could in some unusual circumstances cause blockage of the vents. It is good to be aware of this.

[SnoringInOregon]

Hi all,

When I clean my mask I use "genuine" Dawn dish soap instead of "soapy water" of unspecified provenance.

https://www.pg.com/productsafety/ingredi...iginal.pdf

Dawn has some solvents as well as cleaning agents. I wonder if, perhaps, people who have problems with dirt in their masks would obtain better cleaning with Dawn?

I know that in another thread, either on this forum or the other popular one, there was a recent thread that Dawn might be too harsh for the plastics in the masks. I haven't encountered that but I don't clean all that often. I do make sure I rinse extensively after cleaning. I don't want to be breathing any of that residue all night.

[Hydrangea]

I gave up on using the P10 because - after a year - my mouth wouldn't stay closed in the early AM hours. I concluded that I must have magically become a mouth breather, and thus I needed to switch to a FFM.

Interestingly, I would usually nose-breathe with the FFM (because breathing through my mouth dried it out too much, even with the humidity high enough to walk a tightrope of rainout).

But after reading this thread, and thinking on it a bit, I decided to try the P10 again. I scrubbed it VERY well with a toothbrush, and allowed it to dry for several days. I felt diffused air coming out one side more than the other, which was a bit suspect. And sure enough, I could not keep my mouth closed throughout the night. Bummer. So I went back to my FFM.

A couple days later, I was thinking more on this, and I thought why not try a different nasal mask in my closet, and see if it's the P10 that causes my mouth to open vs my body just not wanting to be a nose-breather. So I pulled out my Wisp, and what do you know... I got a full night's sleep, and didn't even wake up with mouth breathing one time. Aha!

So now my mind is blown that I'd switched to a FFM because I mistakenly thought I could no longer nose-breathe at night, whereas the real problem was just that the P10s were suffocating me.

Now I will delve deeper into the world of nasal masks. Because I'd LOVE to not have to use a FFM. And I'd really love to have more minimal headgear (which was one of the primary reasons I loved P10 so much).

[ghce]

Inline with the findings and concerns of this thread and also some comfort and operational issues with the P10 I will be changing to the F&P Brevida nasal pillow mask.

I have used the P10 to my mind quite succesfully for the last year having changed to it because I appear to not be able to toerate a full face mask due to collapsing nasal passages.

I really think that the P10 needs much further investigation with Co2 buildup being measured imperically along the length of the air supply tubing at discrete distances so a more accurate air / CO2 flow model can be obtained. I would go as far as saying that unless this has already been done by ResMed that the P10 needs to be withdrawn from sale and a recall notice issued.

[Snoring Bear]

Inline with the findings and concerns of this thread and also some comfort and operational issues with the P10 I will be changing to the F&P Brevida nasal pillow mask.

I have used the P10 to my mind quite succesfully for the last year having changed to it because I appear to not be able to toerate a full face mask due to collapsing nasal passages.

I really think that the P10 needs much further investigation with Co2 buildup being measured imperically along the length of the air supply tubing at discrete distances so a more accurate air / CO2 flow model can be obtained. I would go as far as saying that unless this has already been done by ResMed that the P10 needs to be withdrawn from sale and a recall notice issued.

It appears at the base of the problems associated with the Airfit P10 are issues of "proper maintenance".  As you have used the p10 over past year "quite successfully", so too have countless thousands of people. Unfortunately I have heard many people voice the opinion that regular cleaning of their masks and/or other equipment really isn't that important.  This of course goes against the recommendations of the manufacturers.

If there is an inherent safety risk in using the Airfit P10, I believe it should be disclosed so that people know when it could happen or what to watch out for.   My personal health provider  says that my head-frame could/should be replaced every three months.  I would think "if" I were to follow that replacement schedule, there would be no way for the vents to become obstructed, given I exercise the recommended maintenance which I believe to be cleaning the pillows and head-frame twice-a-week.  Before finding out the recommended cleaning schedule, I had been cleaning those pieces daily since I was aware of the potential of adverse risks if I became complacent and/or lazy. I wasn't willing to take that risk. And I can surely appreciate that certain environments could hasten the need for proper maintenance of the pillows and headset.

If there were inherent safety issues plaguing this product, lord knows there would be countless million-dollar-lawsuits in the courts along with perhaps a huge class-action filing.  I am assuming that neither of these situations are currently present, otherwise Resmed would certainly have discontinued marketing the product to stay in business.

Luckily consumers have choices to use many different products.  Many have done just like you and have used the Airfit P10 quite successfully while others have happily chosen other products.  I suspect the P10 or some variant of it will continue to be used for quite some time, that is until or unless safety and/or economic hardships compel Resmed to take a different course.

[Hydrangea]

It appears at the base of the problems associated with the Airfit P10 are issues of "proper maintenance".  As you have used the p10 over past year "quite successfully", so too have countless thousands of people. Unfortunately I have heard many people voice the opinion that regular cleaning of their masks and/or other equipment really isn't that important.  This of course goes against the recommendations of the manufacturers.

If there is an inherent safety risk in using the Airfit P10, I believe it should be disclosed so that people know when it could happen or what to watch out for.   My personal health provider  says that my head-frame could/should be replaced every three months.  I would think "if" I were to follow that replacement schedule, there would be no way for the vents to become obstructed, given I exercise the recommended maintenance which I believe to be cleaning the pillows and head-frame twice-a-week.  

I have pondered this. If I'd received replacements according to an insurance-authorized schedule, perhaps I would never have experienced the suffocation. 

But - due to insurance/DME issues - I was purchasing my masks out-of-pocket, thus buying replacements whenever I felt so inclined (ie: less often than insurance would authorize). 

I wonder if I would have success once again with the P10 if insurance was paying for it consistently at a good replacement schedule.

[ghce]

Inline with the findings and concerns of this thread and also some comfort and operational issues with the P10 I will be changing to the F&P Brevida nasal pillow mask.

I have used the P10 to my mind quite succesfully for the last year having changed to it because I appear to not be able to toerate a full face mask due to collapsing nasal passages.

I really think that the P10 needs much further investigation with Co2 buildup being measured imperically along the length of the air supply tubing at discrete distances so a more accurate air / CO2 flow model can be obtained. I would go as far as saying that unless this has already been done by ResMed that the P10 needs to be withdrawn from sale and a recall notice issued.

It appears at the base of the problems associated with the Airfit P10 are issues of "proper maintenance".  As you have used the p10 over past year "quite successfully", so too have countless thousands of people. Unfortunately I have heard many people voice the opinion that regular cleaning of their masks and/or other equipment really isn't that important.  This of course goes against the recommendations of the manufacturers.

If there is an inherent safety risk in using the Airfit P10, I believe it should be disclosed so that people know when it could happen or what to watch out for.   My personal health provider  says that my head-frame could/should be replaced every three months.  I would think "if" I were to follow that replacement schedule, there would be no way for the vents to become obstructed, given I exercise the recommended maintenance which I believe to be cleaning the pillows and head-frame twice-a-week.  Before finding out the recommended cleaning schedule, I had been cleaning those pieces daily since I was aware of the potential of adverse risks if I became complacent and/or lazy. I wasn't willing to take that risk. And I can surely appreciate that certain environments could hasten the need for proper maintenance of the pillows and headset.

If there were inherent safety issues plaguing this product, lord knows there would be countless million-dollar-lawsuits in the courts along with perhaps a huge class-action filing.  I am assuming that neither of these situations are currently present, otherwise Resmed would certainly have discontinued marketing the product to stay in business.

Luckily consumers have choices to use many different products.  Many have done just like you and have used the Airfit P10 quite successfully while others have happily chosen other products.  I suspect the P10 or some variant of it will continue to be used for quite some time, that is until or unless safety and/or economic hardships compel Resmed to take a different course.

Its a bit of a minefield when it comes to keeping users safe as medical providers of the P10 are most likely the ones who advise users rather than ResMed itself. In my particular case my provider supplies just one mask a year on request.

Normally with medications they come to the end user with a list of side effects  and contraindications. The point being with the P10 there is no mention of long term effects of CO2 due to not cleaning on a regular basis. 

CO2 poisoning is a very serious thing which if unchecked for several years would undoubtedly have a very negative impact on the users health, cognition and longevity. None of this gets any mention from the manufacturer or providor....... and this from an FDA approved product, alarm bells should be going off somewhere.

[ghce]

   

   

[NotADr]

ghce:  "In my particular case my provider supplies just one mask a year on request."

Resmed's website recommends replacing the frame system every 3 months and nasal cushions every 14 days.  I pay out of pocket, so I don't have experience with DME providers, but I'm a bit surprised that they go against the recommendations of the manufacturer regarding replacement schedules.  Is this common?  It would seem to open them up for liability.

[Stom]

So, long story short, look at your total airflow. It is a good indication of whether or not your mask vents are working properly.

On a Resmed it should be pretty easy to test intentional leak rate by just plugging the pillows with silicone earplugs from the inside and reading the leak rate from Sleepyhead. The resmed reports the raw leak rate.