[Equipment] DME gave me an AirSense 10 Autoset with 299 hours on it

[ewokempire]

I've been doing CPAP therapy for about 5 years now, and swear by it.

I picked up my new AirSense 10 Autoset from the DME today to replace my old machine, and the menu shows that the total hours used is 299.

The water reservoir is definitely new, and the machine otherwise looks completely new, but it does have a month and a half's use on it.

They charged my insurance $1070, but I still had a little bit of my yearly $500 deductible to use up, so my total cost was $327. Supplies for the rest of the year are free though so I'm not that bothered.

Anyway, how concerned should I be about the 299 hours of use? Is this something where I can say "no biggie" or should I take it back to the DME?

DME is Harmony Healthcare in Arcadia, CA if that makes any difference.

Thanks!!

[Walla Walla]

It's up to you. It works out to about a month's worth of use on it. Your insurance paid prime dollar for a new machine not a used one. You would be within your rights to take it back and for one without any hours on it. Like I said it depends on how you feel about it.

[PerChancetoDream]

I am fairly new here, but the ethics of charging you and your insurance company for a new machine and then giving you one that is clearly used would bother me enough to call them on it and demand a brand new one. I don't think that number of hours would probably be a huge deal on machine life, but it would be the ethical thing that would have me take action.

[REMless]

I am fairly new here, but the ethics of charging you and your insurance company for a new machine and then giving you one that is clearly used would bother me enough to call them on it and demand a brand new one.  I don't think that number of hours would probably be a huge deal on machine life, but it would be the ethical thing that would have me take action.

I would say that was at least careless if not unethical on their part.    There have been car dealers sued for millions of dollars for not disclosing that a new on the lot had hail damage that was previously repaired.

[Sleeprider]

DMEs operate under a bit different rules. They are required by insurance to provide an extended warranty on machine and exchange machines in the event of intolerance or prescription changes. They view machines as "rentable" and recyclable. Many purchases are setup as rentals to enable easier exchange or return. Medicare and most insurance companies allow it, and I'm not aware of a specific requirement that equipment must be unused, however it certainly must be in clean, as-new condition and any parts used in contact with a patient's respiratory circuit (mask, tubing, humidifier chamber) is new.

This happens more often than you might think and most members that object, receive new replacement equipment. The machine with 300 hours will surely be passed along to the next person who will not notice or object.

[JesseLee]

I agree with everyone that has posted before me. The one thing i would like to say, is that if you dont have a problem using a slightly used machine, then carry on. I personally have no problems with used machines. However, if you think having a used machine is going to be an issue and it's going to be constantly on the back of your mind, i suggest you go ahead and seek the new machine. The sooner you handle this, the likelihood of a smoother resolution. It's up to you

Best wished

[mesenteria]

It's sort of like that opting out problem we had years ago with service providers....what you didn't know wouldn't hurt you, or what you didn't know to ask is your tough luck.

It would have been unethical to sell you a machine as 'new' if she told you it was never used and you learned subsequently that it had even 12 hours of trial use on it.  A month-plus is not a new machine.  On the other hand, the 299 hours represent a tiny fraction of the warrantable expectant use of the machine, let alone that most go well beyond that until the typical insurer agrees to replace them for a 'new' unit at five years.

I would simply ask the supplier why the machine has 300 hours of use when you were required to pay for a machine that was ostensibly unused and brand new to you...only to you.  It's a loss no matter how you look at it, logically, because you will never get the use of those 300 hours yourself.  You've paid for them...………………………………..

[OpalRose]

The same thing happened to me.  My machine was given to me as “new.”  The crazy DME even required that I pay an upcharge of $175.00 because after all, it was an Apap not a Cpap.

I was clueless, until I joined this forum a week later.  I started reading some posts and decided to look at the hours on my machine.  It had quite a few hours on it, way over what I could have used it a weeks time.  

I called the DME the same day, told them what I found out and they offered a “new”  0 hour machine.  Also, after asking my insurance about the “upcharge”, they told me that they were not supposed to charge me anything over what was contracted between them and DME.

I not only received a new 0 hour machine, but got my $175.00 upcharge back.  

Unfortunately, they more than likely took advantage of the next sucker naive person that walked in not knowing what to look for.

[SarcasticDave94]

It's really your choice as the patient whether to accept the used "new" device or return it for an actual new unit. One month use of a 5 year plus device actually isn't a lot, but mine had similar hours and I made them exchange it in my case.

[ewokempire]

Well, I tried it last night, and the air did smell kinda weird. Like sweet lipbalm or something, obviously from the previous user(s). I think that's enough of a reason for me not to give them a "pass" on this one. Going to request a new machine.