[Equipment] Fisher & Paykel Icon+ questions

[kowlooner]

I’m looking at the F&P Icon+ auto and am wondering if anybody has had any experience with them. The positives are the price and general features (and Sleepyhead compatibility), but you can’t adjust the ramp time, which I think is the only semi-negative I see.

If you are using one of these, what do you like about it? What do you not like about it? Would you recommend it to others?

Thanks!

[holden4th]

I started off with one and it didn't work for me. That, of course, doesn't mean it won't work for you.

Since moving on I see the F&P as a rather basic model which has features missing that other machines have.

The ramp feature does work if you get into the clinical menu but there is no Exhalation Pressure Relief which is a must for many new users. The humidity feature is set and forget as opposed to automatic and it's breathing algorithm didn't work for me.

If you look at the profiles of our forum members you won't find many F&Ps and this in itself is probably significant.

Your choice but a used Resmed S9 or similar from Supplier #2 might be the go. When I changed from the F&P the change in my therapy was dramatic. OK, maybe I had a bad one (it was a loaner) but I can't recommend the,.

[wishicansleep]

I used a trial Icon+ for 3 months. I liked the style and the compactness. It has a ramp and it is quiet. It does not give as much information as the resmed or respironics machines. I have moved on to the PR60 system one. I think the Ikon is good for simple low pressures but if you have higher pressures needed exhalation relief or to check your data then respironjcs or resmed are better for simolar prices

[kowlooner]

Thanks both of you for your responses. I was hoping for something more positive because the machines look nice and are pretty cheap! Over at the supplier 1 product reviews, it seemed pretty popular.

Anybody else out there have good (or not so good) experiences with Fisher and Paykel? Please do chime in! Though it does appear from previous related threads that the experiences lean towards the negative side. Oh well.

[Arend]

Anybody else out there have good (or not so good) experiences with Fisher and Paykel? Please do chime in! Though it does appear from previous related threads that the experiences lean towards the negative side. Oh well.

I've used mine for over a year and it works fine for me. My minimum pressure is set at 13. It gives me all the information I need except for the flow rate which I understand is a bug in the Sleepy Head program. Evidently the machine puts out the data but neither SH nor the official Infosmart software display it. The only thing it won't do which my old machine did is operate on 12 volts which was handy for camping.

[woozie38]

[quote='kowlooner' pid='159396' dateline='1461602266']
Anybody else out there have good (or not so good) experiences with Fisher and Paykel? Please do chime in! Though it does appear from previous related threads that the experiences lean towards the negative side. Oh well.

Hi kowlooner,
Most if not all of the foregoing posted information on the F&P Icon + is wrong.
I have been using mine for more than two years & I am very happy with it. The Icon does have expired air pressure relief, it also is fully data compliant with Sleepyhead. It is NOT a basic machine, it is an auto titrating machine with full features. The ramp feature is there too but since I don't use ramp, I don't know whether or not its is adjustable. The expiration pressure relief is called "Sense Awake" and it works as well as any other machine, so well that I am unaware it is there, but it shows in SH data readout. I recommend the Icon+, it is a good machine, it does what it should do & does it well.
BTW. flow rate of any flow generator is controlled by the exhaust ports of the mask being used so that is not an important factor & not worth considering.

[holden4th]

No, Woozie 38, we are not wrong, we are just stating what we have experienced!

Sensawake is definitely not Expired Air Pressure Relief. Apparently when you wake up (or when the ICON thinks you wake up and it doesn't gauge this very well from what I experienced) Sensawake adjusts the pressure.

EPR, CFLEX, etc, work continuously while you are still asleep. I tried the Sensawake and while it works to some extent if you are using fixed pressure, it doesn't respond well to auto. I played around with it quite a bit and eventually turned it off. Feedback I sought from others on this forum supported turning it off for APAP.

That said Kowlooner, it's working well for Woozie38 and might work well for you. Me, I was happy to move on and changing from the ICON to the Resmed made a huge and immediate difference to my therapy

[kowlooner]

Thanks for the added info, folks! And a little competition between opinions can be good. From what I can see, the effectiveness of the machine is going to depend on the user, and perhaps is a function of personal expectations too.

I’m still sort of leaning towards the F&P Icon+, mainly due to the size of the thing (seems way more compact in terms of footprint) but also the price, though I’m also thinking about the Respironics (which appears the least compact) because of what others have described as a less “aggressive” auto. Need to decide soon though.

Again, thanks everybody for the input!

[woozie38]

No, Woozie 38, we are not wrong, we are just stating what we have experienced!

Sensawake is definitely not Expired Air Pressure Relief. Apparently when you wake up (or when the ICON thinks you wake up and it doesn't gauge this very well from what I experienced) Sensawake adjusts the pressure.

EPR, CFLEX, etc, work continuously while you are still asleep. I tried the Sensawake and while it works to some extent if you are using fixed pressure, it doesn't respond well to auto. I played around with it quite a bit and eventually turned it off. Feedback I sought from others on this forum supported turning it off for APAP.

That said Kowlooner, it's working well for Woozie38 and might work well for you. Me, I was happy to move on and changing from the ICON to the Resmed made a huge and immediate difference to my therapy

My Apologies holden4th & others, I didn't mean to say you are all wrong, just that the information is wrong.
I agree the "Sense Awake" feature of the Icon+ only reduces pressure on expiration when the patient is awake - but that's when it's needed. There is support for the view that it is better not to have expired air pressure relief whilst asleep because the splinting of the upper airway is better achieved without (EPR) it. IMHO there is little difference in the way Sense Awake or EPR feels when on the machine. I am unable to sense any difference between my S8 & my Icon+ in this regard. The Icon+ is the quietest machine I've ever owned too, & that includes my first machine, a "Sullivan".
F&P have been in the business for many years & are very well regarded in the industry.

[Arend]

The expiration pressure relief is called "Sense Awake" and it works as well as any other machine, so well that I am unaware it is there, but it shows in SH data readout. I recommend the Icon+, it is a good machine, it does what it should do & does it well.
BTW. flow rate of any flow generator is controlled by the exhaust ports of the mask being used so that is not an important factor & not worth considering.

As has already been pointed out, "Sense Awake" is not expiration pressure relief. I do find it helpful. I've tried it with and without and I do I sleep better with it on. So it does seem to work for me as intended, that is, it keeps me from waking up during the night. I never use Ramp and expiration pressure has never been an issue for me. I used a Remstar Plus for ten or more years before I got the Icon and it never had fancy stuff like expiration pressure relief either.

Flow Rate data, and the ability of SleepyHead to interpret it, to me is very important. SH is able to show every breath you take on a graph and lets you see when you stop breathing and for how long. As I mentioned, this worked with SH until Jan. 1, 2015. A bug in the SH program tells the program to ignore the data produced after the above date so it doesn't show up in a SH graph. I've been able to find and correct the offending line in the SH code but haven't figured out a way to recompile the program at this point. I'm a little out of my depth on that one since I'm not much of a programmer. Hopefully a fixed version will come out soon.

As I said previously, I think the Icon is a fine machine that does the job well for me. I have no experience with any other APAP's so I can't compare.